TED Talk >> Rebecca Saxe: How we read each other's minds
So, the job of my field of cognitive neuroscience is to stand with these ideas, one in each hand. And to try to understand how you can put together simple units, simple messages over space and time, in a network, and get this amazing human capacity to think about minds. So I'm going to tell you three things about this today. Obviously the whole project here is huge. And I'm going to tell you just our first few steps about the discovery of a special brain region for thinking about other people's thoughts. Some observations on the slow development of this system as we learn how to do this difficult job. And then finally, to show that some of the differences between people, in how we judge others, can be explained by differences in this brain system.
我工作的领域是认知神经科学，就是研究每一个人的这些想法。然后尝试如何在网络中，将简单的单元，简单的信息，不受到时间和空间的限制，组合在一起，得到这些人类思考的能力。我接下来要和大家谈三个这方面的事情。很明显，这样的一个项目非常庞大。我谈到的只是几个我们研究的最初阶段，有关于发现大脑中用于思考的区域。另外一些是观察这个机制是如何慢慢发展起来。因为我们要学习如何去完成这份困难的任务。最后，为了展现人与人之间的差别，我们如何判断他人，可以通过这个大脑系统的差异来解释。
So first, the first thing I want to tell you is that there is a brain region in the human brain, in your brains, whose job it is to think about other people's thoughts. This is a picture of it. It's called the Right Temporo-Parietal Junction. It's above and behind your right ear. And this is the brain region you used when you saw the pictures I showed you, or when you read Romeo and Juliet or when you tried to understand Alan Greenspan. And you don't use it for solving any other kinds of logical problems. So this brain region is called the Right TPJ. And this picture shows the average activation in a group of what we call typical human adults. They're MIT undergraduates.
那么首先，第一个和大家讲述的是，在人类的大脑中有一个区域，这个区域的任务就是去思考别人是如何思考的。这里是一张关于它的图片，我们称它为右颞顶联合。它大概就在你右耳的后上方。当你看到我向你展示的照片，或者当你读罗密欧与朱丽叶，或者当你试图理解Alan Greenspan时，这就是你所使用的大脑区域。 但你不会使用它来解决任何逻辑推理的问题。我们称这块脑区域为RTPJ。这张图片显示了一组典型成人的RTPJ的平均激活情况，它们是MIT的本科生。
The second thing I want to say about this brain system is that although we human adults are really good at understanding other minds, we weren't always that way. It takes children a long time to break into the system. I'm going to show you a little bit of that long, extended process. The first thing I'm going to show you is a change between age three and five, as kids learn to understand that somebody else can have beliefs that are different from their own. So I'm going to show you a five-year-old who is getting a standard kind of puzzle that we call the false belief task.
关于这个大脑系统我想说的第二件事是，尽管我们成人怎的很擅长去理解他人的想法，但我们并不总是这样。小孩需要很长的一段时间才能开启这个系统。我将向您展示这段漫长的过程。先要演示的是3岁的孩子与5岁孩子的变化。因为孩子要学会去理解别人可以有不同于自己的想法。先看下一个5岁大的孩子，他面临一个标准的谜题，我们称之为为“错误的信念任务”。
Rebecca Saxe: This is the first pirate. His name is Ivan. And you know what pirates really like?
Child: What?
RS: Pirates really like cheese sandwiches.
Child: Cheese? I love cheese!
RS: Yeah. So Ivan has this cheese sandwich, and he says, "Yum yum yum yum yum! I really love cheese sandwiches." And Ivan puts his sandwich over here, on top of the pirate chest. And Ivan says, "You know what? I need a drink with my lunch." And so Ivan goes to get a drink. And while Ivan is away the wind comes, and it blows the sandwich down onto the grass. And now, here comes the other pirate. This pirate is called Joshua. And Joshua also really loves cheese sandwiches. So Joshua has a cheese sandwich and he says, "Yum yum yum yum yum! I love cheese sandwiches." And he puts his cheese sandwich over here on top of the pirate chest.
Child: So, that one is his.
RS: That one is Joshua's. That's right.
Child: And then his went on the ground.
RS: That's exactly right.
Child: So he won't know which one is his.
RS: Oh. So now Joshua goes off to get a drink. Ivan comes back and he says, "I want my cheese sandwich." So which one do you think Ivan is going to take?
Child: I think he is going to take that one.
RS: Yeah, you think he's going to take that one? All right. Let's see. Oh yeah, you were right. He took that one.
Rebecca Saxe：这是第一个海盗，名字叫做Ivan，你知道海盗最喜欢什么吗？
Child：什么？
RS：海盗最喜欢乳酪三明治
Child：乳酪？我爱吃乳酪。
RS：对的！那么Ivan有这个乳酪三明治。然后他说着“嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯！我最爱乳酪三明治"。然后Ivan把他的三明治放在这里，一个海盗箱子的上面，然后Ivan又说“你知道不，我要为午餐去弄点喝的”。然后Ivan离开去取喝的。当Ivan离开的时候，一阵风挂来，把三明治吹到了草地上。这时候，又来了另外一个海盗，这个海盗叫做Joshua。当然Joshua也一样很喜欢乳酪三明治。Joshua也有一个乳酪三明治。然后他说 “嗯 嗯 嗯 嗯！我爱乳酪三明治”。接着他把他的乳酪三明治放到了这个海盗箱的上面。
Child：这个就是他的。
RS：那个是Joshua的。对极了！
Child：Ivan的掉到了地上。
RS：完全正确。
Child：他不会知道哪个是他自己的。
RS：喔，那现在Joshua离开去喝酒了。Ivan回来，他说“我要我的乳酪三明治。“那你认为Ivan将会拿走哪一个呢？
child：我认为他会拿走那一个
RS：耶，你认为他会拿走这个吧？对极了。我们看看，哦，你猜对了。他拿走了那个。
So that's a five-year-old who clearly understands that other people can have false beliefs and what the consequences are for their actions. Now I'm going to show you a three-year-old who got the same puzzle.
对于一个5岁大的孩子，已经可以清晰的理解，别人可能会有错误的想法，以及他们的行为会带来什么后果。现在我给你看下一个三岁大的孩子，他也碰到相同的谜题。
RS: And Ivan says, "I want my cheese sandwich." Which sandwich is he going to take? Do you think he's going to take that one? Let's see what happens. Let's see what he does. Here comes Ivan. And he says, "I want my cheese sandwich." And he takes this one. Uh-oh. Why did he take that one?
Child: His was on the grass.
RS：Ivan说，“我想要我的乳酪三明治”。他会拿那个走呢？你认为他会拿走那个吗？我们看下会发生什么。Ivan来啦。他说，“我要我的乳酪三明治”，接着他拿走了这一个，噢。他为什么要拿那个啊？
child：他的掉在了草地上了
So the three-year-old does two things differently. First, he predicts Ivan will take the sandwich that's really his. And second, when he sees Ivan taking the sandwich where he left his, where we would say he's taking that one because he thinks it's his, the three-year-old comes up with another explanation: He's not taking his own sandwich because he doesn't want it, because now it's dirty, on the ground. So that's why he's taking the other sandwich. Now of course, development doesn't end at five. And we can see the continuation of this process of learning to think about other people's thoughts by upping the ante and asking children now, not for an action prediction, but for a moral judgment. So first I'm going to show you the three-year-old again.
因此，三岁大的孩子做了两件不同的事情。第一个是他认定Ivan会带走那个真正是他的三明治。第二，当他看到Ivan从他放三明治的地方拿走三明治时，我们会认为Ivan会拿走那一个，因为他认为那个是他的。但是三岁大的孩子会有另外一种解释，Ivan不拿走真正属于他三文治，是他不想要，因为它现在已经掉在地上脏了，所以这是为什他拿走另外的三明治。当然，智力的发展不是在5岁时候就结束了。我们可以看到去学习理解他人想法的，是一个持续的过程。伴随着增加赌注，接着我问小孩子们，不去预测行为，而是对道德的判断。再给大家看下三岁大的孩子的情况。
RS: So is Ivan being mean and naughty for taking Joshua's sandwich?
Child: Yeah.
RS: Should Ivan get in trouble for taking Joshua's sandwich?
Child: Yeah.
RS：Ivan拿走Joshua的三明治呢，他是不是吝啬又顽皮？
child：是的
RS：Ivan拿了Joshua的三明治，会不会惹上麻烦？
child：是的
So it's maybe not surprising he thinks it was mean of Ivan to take Joshua's sandwich, since he thinks Ivan only took Joshua's sandwich to avoid having to eat his own dirty sandwich. But now I'm going to show you the five-year-old. Remember the five-year-old completely understood why Ivan took Joshua's sandwich.
因此，他认为Ivan拿走Joshua的三明治，Ivan是吝啬又顽皮的时候，我们毫不惊讶。因为他认为Ivan拿走Joshua的三明治，是因为他不想吃他那个已经弄脏的三明治。现在我给大家看下5岁的孩子的情况。还记得5岁大的孩子完全能理解，Ivan为什么拿走Joshua的三明治吧。
RS: Was Ivan being mean and naughty for taking Joshua's sandwich?
Child: Um, yeah.
RS：Ivan拿走Joshua的三明治呢，他是不是吝啬又顽皮？
child：是的。
And so, it is not until age seven that we get what looks more like an adult response.
直到7岁时，我们才会看到更像是成年人的反应。
RS: Should Ivan get in trouble for taking Joshua's sandwich?
Child: No, because the wind should get in trouble.
RS：Ivan拿走Joshua的三明治呢，他会不会遇到麻烦？
Child：不会，因为是风惹的。
Question
- What did Saxe learn from the experiment?
> The seven-year-old demonstrated an adult-like moral judgment. - Which of the statements about the three boys' experiment is true?
> The 7-year-old had developed a sense of moral judgment similar to an adult's. - Which of the following is a moral judgment?
> He is a mean and selfish man