Do you want me to talk or do you want to ask questions? I guess I could start with telling you my impressions of you. It appears to me that since I was here last year, you seem to have greater, more intense problems. This is for all in general, not anyone in particular. This intensification of problems makes it appear as though we are going backwards, but it isn't true. We have risen to the state where we can outwardly better express ourselves, and problems now come out into the world rather than remain held in the subconscious mind. When we are apathetic it's difficult for us to express. It's difficult for us to outwardly act, and so our problems remain swirling around in our subconscious mind and most of them don't come out and materialize in the world.
你们想要听我说还是开始提问？我想可以从我对你们的印象开始谈起。自我去年来到这里，就感觉你们的问题越来越严重，越来越尖锐。这是对所有人而言，没有人可以幸免。问题的尖锐体现在你们看起来像是有所退转，但实际并非如此。我们来到了一个新的阶段，在这个阶段里我们能够更好的向外表达我们自己，问题开始浮出水面，而非依旧躲在潜意识里。当我们麻木冷漠，我们很难向外表达。这样问题就停留在潜意识里打转，并在物质世界显化。
When one begins to move a step above the apathetic state, one is still in the apathetic state but is beginning to acquire some of the capability of doing. Then one's problems increasingly materialize outwardly and it seems as though the world is falling in on one. But it's actually a state of growth to move up from the apathetic state and come up into the beginnings of the doingness state, and that's the state of apathetic-doingness. So when we come into this apathetic-doingness state we begin to do with apathetic, agitated tendencies and therefore we're somewhat destructive, even to ourselves. We become outwardly or expressively destructive to the world and to ourselves, we have problems and things seem worse. We think we're going backwards but actually we're moving ahead, because apathetic-doingness is higher than apathetic non- doingness.
当我们开始从冷漠的阶段往前走一步，我们依然处在冷漠的阶段，但却开始获得某些行动的能力。在此阶段，问题越来越多地呈现，看起来像是整个世界都坍塌了。但实际上这对冷漠阶段而言，是个进步，这是个冷漠但却有所行动的阶段。在这个阶段，我们的行动带有焦虑不安的倾向，因此似乎有些破坏性，无论对这个世界还是我们自己。问题出现，并且看起来似乎更糟。我们以为自己退步了，但实际是在前进，因为这个阶段要比纯粹的冷漠阶段更高一层次。
Now, the step above apathetic-doingness would be one of doingness where we would be equally constructive and destructive. Move up another step, and you move into the doingness beingness state where you're a big doer and only constructive. When you step up from there, you go into the beingness state you don't have to do, you just only be. So the overall state of the world today is that it has moved up into this apathetic-doingness state and the world seems to have bigger and better problems. This is progress, a step forward, although it appears otherwise. To sum up the foregoing, the stages of growth are set out on the next page.
从这个阶段再往前一步，是行动的阶段，在行动阶段，我们开始有所建设性，同时依然还有破坏性。再往前，便进入了行动又存在的阶段，此时便只剩建设性。最后一个阶段就是存在的阶段，在此阶段，你什么都无需做，只是单纯的存在。这个世界如今进入了冷漠但又有所行动的阶段，看起来问题更大更严重，但实际上却是个进步。
译者注：
第一阶段：冷漠
第二阶段：冷漠-行动
第三阶段：行动
第四阶段：行动-存在
第五阶段：存在
Q: Is this the world in general, or is it just the people on the path who are caught up in this?
问：你是指整个世界还是一部分人处在这个阶段（冷漠-行动阶段）？
Lester: It's both. We are all involved in this. You see it expressed in the race issue, the revolt again the establishment, juvenile delinquency, Viet Nam, Africa. It's prevalent everywhere today. It is part of the world growth (Stage 2).
答：两者都是。我们全都处在这个阶段。你看种族问题、青少年犯罪、越战、非洲问题等都是这个阶段的表达。这是世界成长的必经之路。
Q: Is this because people are more developed to cope with it?
问：是因为人们更有能力处理这些问题吗？
STAGES OF GROWTH
成长的阶段
INACTION
无动于衷
Apathy: Inaction due to apathy, with resentments and hostilities, and fear to express for fear of retaliation. A subjectively destructive state.
冷漠阶段：无动于衷是缘于冷漠、仇恨和敌意，以及因为害怕被报复而不敢表达，是个破坏性的阶段。
(Between 1. and 3.)
（介于第一和第三阶段之间）
Apathetic-doingness: Beginnings of action, enough will to express things outwardly. A beginning of an outwardly active but destructive state.
冷漠-行动阶段：开始行动，并有足够的意愿来表达自己。是个积极但却依然具有破坏性的阶段。
ACTION
行动
Doingness: Action that moves us out of Stage 1, toward the equilibrium of Stage 5. Here one is equally constructive and destructive to oneself and the world.
行动阶段：因为行动而开始脱离第一阶段，向第五阶段进发。在此阶段，人们开始具有建设性，同时又保留破坏性，无论是对世界还是对自己。
(Between 3. and 5.)
（介于第三和第五阶段之间）
Doingness-beingness: Energetic doingness with calmness: much outward action, all constructive to ourself, the world and the universe.
行动-存在阶段：冷静且高效的行动，无论是对自己还是全宇宙，只剩建设性而不再有破坏性。
INACTION
不再行动
Serenity: Inaction, the ability to just be, to be the witness, watching and allowing the universe to be perfect as it really is.
问：无动于衷，是种只是旁观的能力，见证并允许这个世界自行运转。
Lester: They're more developed, not to cope with it, but more developed. The way they're coping with it is in a destructive way. Problems don't have to be solved by killing each other or by violence. Problems could be solved by discussions and should be. However, it's a step forward from a lower state (Stage 1).
答：在此阶段人们的能力更上一层，这种发展不是源于为了解决问题。但人们是以破坏性的方式解决问题，通过暴力、自相残杀的方式。但问题完全可以并也应该通过商讨的方式解决。但对第一阶段而言，这个阶段依然是个进步。
The world today is in a low state of beingness (Stage 2). It's called the materialistic age. We came out of the lowest state, wherein we lived only to satiate our appetites, about 1700 A.D. You know what the dark ages were. We're now in the second stage and we're having the growing pains of getting out of the first into the second. But the second is not a highly spiritual state; its the stage where technically we advance tremendously. The third stage begins the state of knowing that this is a mental world and that we are all related. We stop fighting each other and we all love one another. And the fourth state is the state in which man - knows fully his beingness in God, that he is a totally free being. These four are the Iron, bronze, silver and golden ages the ancient Greeks spoke of. (The fifth stage is really beyond this world, although accomplished in this world.) However, at anytime, whenever anyone chooses, he may move into the highest state. We don't have to stay at the level that the world is in, and those of us who are on the path are moving up out of this general level. Aren't we lucky?
当今世界正处在存在阶段的较低端（第二阶段），叫做唯物主义纪元。我们从最低阶段出来，大约在17世纪，人们只为满足私欲而活，那是个非常黑暗的时期。我们现在正处在第二阶段，经历着从第一阶段脱离出来的阵痛。但这个阶段依然不是高度灵性的阶段，只是加速的阶段。到了第三阶段，人们开始认识到这是个心智创造的世界，彼此之间息息相关，我们不再自相残杀，取而代之的是彼此友爱。到第四阶段，体认到自己的存在即是上帝的存在，完全自由的存在。这四个阶段分别被古希腊人称作黑铁时代、青铜时代、白银时代以及黄金时代。然而无论何时，任何人只要愿意，都可以进入最高阶段。我们不必待在这个世界所处的阶段，完全可以先行一步。从这点来讲，我们是幸运的，不是吗？
Q: Even with our problems?
问：即使背负着很多问题？
Lester: Yes. To the world everything seems hopeless. They feel helpless. We know the way out. No matter how much the world hurts, we know there's a way out. We have hope and a direction. And what is the way out? Not looking to the world for happiness, but looking to the place where happiness is, -and that place is right within us, within our consciousness. Unlimited joy is our natural, inherent state which we have, through ignorance, undone by imposing concepts of limitations: I need this, I need him, I need her, and if I don't get these I am hurt, I have trouble. Growth is only letting go of these concepts of lack and limitation or, on the positive side, going within and seeing this unlimited Being that we are and choosing to remain as such.
答：是的。对这世界而言，似乎一切都无望，让人感到无助。但我们知道出路在哪。无论这个世界有多么伤痕累累，我们都知道是有出路的。我们是有希望的，有指引的。那么出路在哪？不要试图从这世界找寻幸福，把目光投向幸福所在地，那个地方就在我们的内在，在我们的意识里。无限的喜悦是我们的固有本质，只要释放掉那些强加的限制性信念，比如我需要这个，需要他/她，没有这些我会受伤，会有麻烦，诸如此类的信念。成长仅仅是往内深入，释放这些匮乏感，这些限制性信念，看到我们的无限存在，并持续地待在那里。
Anytime we have trouble, anytime we have a problem, we're being the limited ego. Were trying to express the Self through the limited ego, and it's too small, we get squeezed and it hurts. So, if there is a problem, the thing to do is to ask yourself, What am I doing? Wherein am I demanding, seeking with ego motivation? If the answer comes, if you see how, egowise, you're causing this so-called problem, you'll automatically pull the cause up from the subconscious into the conscious, and once it's conscious you'll naturally let go of it. The reason why one doesn't let go is because the cause, the thought that initiated the difficulty is subconscious. So, either we make the thought conscious and let go of it, or, and this is the higher and better way, we know strongly enough that we are the Self, that we are not this body, this mind, this world. And when you feel the Self, the feel of the Self is nothing but unlimited joy, and all problems immediately resolve!
任何时候只要我们出现问题，陷入麻烦，我们就是被小我所困。我们总是通过有限制的小我来表达真我，但小我太小了，结果只能是被困住。因此，只要问题出现，我们只需问问自己：被小我所驱动的我在干什么？在要求什么，寻找什么？如果你看到小我是如何制造所谓的问题，你就将罪魁祸首从潜意识里拉到意识层面，释放便自然地发生。为什么难以释放是因为这个根，这个从中作梗的想法依然躲在潜意识里。所以，当潜意识的想法浮出水面，并将其释放，我们就能发现我们不是这具身体，这颗脑袋，这个世界，而是如如不动的真我。当你觉知到了真我，便会体认到真我即是无限的喜悦，此时所有问题瞬间烟消云散
I sound quite indicting when I say any problem, any trouble, is ego motivated, but that you'll find is true. When you will be your Self there is no problem, there is nothing that will not fall into line perfectly, harmoniously, with no effort. The more ego motivated we are, the more difficult it is to accomplish something, the less harmony there is and the greater the misery we have. And it is really as simple as I'm putting it. What's not easy is to let go of these wrong habits of insisting upon being an ego. The habits are strong. They've been well ingrained over thousands of years. But all of us on the path are now letting go of these things and we don't let go easily because of the habits that have been there such a long, long time. However, the moment we choose to let go of them, we can. If we say we can't let go it's because we really don't want to. The desire to let go isn't strong enough.
我说任何问题，任何麻烦，只是小我所驱动，这有待你自己去发现。当你觉知到真我，问题便不复存在，无需任何努力，就能来到完美和谐之境。如果我们越被小我所驱动，我们就越难达成我们想要的，痛苦也就更甚。释放小我所执着的有害习性，如我所言真的很简单。之所以有难度是因为那些习性生长了几千年。但是只要此刻我们选择释放它们，我们就能做到。如果你说不能释放那是因为你真的不想释放，释放的意愿不够强烈。
Do I make this too simple? You know why I'm addressing you, Jim, because I know you've had quite a lot of this. You've probably heard it presented in beautifully complicated ways, with a lot of things added to it that complicate it, and make it more difficult to see. But once we accept it and see the simplicity of it, all we need to do is effect it. And no one can do it for us but we ourselves.
我说它很简单，不是吗？吉姆，你知道我为什么向你强调吗？因为你听到的可能都是些花哨但令人困惑的说辞。但一旦我们看到它其实很简单，我们所需做的仅仅是达成它。没人能帮我们做到，除了我们自己。
Q: I have a friend who has problems. She's Catholic and very pious. When things get blackest and she has no more hope and is at the bottom I at that very moment something happens so that everything turns out right.
问：我有个朋友，有点麻烦。她是个虔诚的天主教徒。当时她的生活陷入困顿，她感到毫无希望，非常消沉（处在低谷）。希望事情能有转机，重回正轨。
Lester: Do you know why she must reach bottom?
答：你知道她为什么非得陷入低谷吗？
Q: Well she has faith and she knows that---
问：因为她有信仰，她知道怎么、、、
Lester: No, she doesn't have faith and she is not pious I this is her trouble. You see I faith would cause her to let go and let God. Pious would cause a similar thing, --- surrendering and being humble. Outwardly she's the way you say I but inwardly she's the way I'm saying. You see, she tries, herself, to control everything and that's not letting God. She tries and she tries and she tries.
答：不，她没有信仰，她并不虔诚，这才是她的麻烦所在。你知道信仰会使人放手，让上帝来接手。虔诚同样使人变得谦卑、臣服。从外在看，她是你说的那个样子，但内在却是我说的这种情况。她试图去控制一切，尝尽各种办法，非常努力，但却不是让上帝来接手。
Q: She prays.
问：她有祈祷。
Lester: Yes I she prays, but she wants it the way she wants it, not the way God would want it. She's found out that her praying for it doesn't help her. You don't have to pray, if you surrender. You've got to let go and let God. When does she let go and let God? When she herself can't do anything anymore, she lets go. In the extreme she lets go, and the moment one lets go, everything resolves itself. Can you see it? In the extreme, she feels, Oh, there's nothing I can do, and that's when she lets go and lets God. If you can show her this point she'll see it, most likely, and then be more consciously able to use it.
答：是的，她祈祷，但却希望事情按她想要的发生，而不是让上帝可能想要的那样。她已经知道她的祈祷无济于事。如果你臣服，完全不必祈祷。你必须放手，让上帝来接手。但她什么时候放过手，让上帝来接手呢？当她再也无能为力时，她会放手。到那个极限时，她放手，问题便会自行解决。如果你能告诉她这点，她很有可能会看到的，会更有觉知。
Q: I keep trying to tell her that she must be confident.
问：我一直都跟她说要有信心
Lester: Conviction, stronger than faith, absolute conviction of God, that will do it! Let go and let God and then everything straightens out, but when we try to do it, we have trouble.
答：比信仰更强的是笃信，笃信上帝，这才有用！放手，让上帝来接手，这样事情才会解决。但当我们努力去做时，我们依然陷于麻烦中。
Q: When you say, Let go and let God, does that mean that you should work strictly on inspiration, or just sit back and let things happen?
问：你说放手，让上帝来接手，这是否意味着要等待灵感，或者只是坐着，让事情自行运转？
Lester: Have the feeling of letting things happen. To accomplish this we have to let the ego- sense go. The ego is I am an individual, Lester:, and 1 have a body and I do things. That's wrong. If I am the Self, there is no Lester:, -1 have to get Lester: out of the way and let Self or God operate. When achieved, you'll move in life, you'll sort of fioat through things, but there will be no effort. If there's effort, there's ego. Now, of course, you're going to have to use some effort, because you're not starting off as the realized Self. You see, when this girl goes to the extreme, she lets go and things happen effortlessly. That's letting go and letting God!
答：要有让事情自行发生的意识。想要有这种意识，就必须释放自我感。自我（小我）说我是这个叫莱斯特的个体，我有身体，要做事情。但那不是真的。如果我即真我，就没有所谓的莱斯特。那么我必须释放掉莱斯特，让真我或上帝来运作。当你这么做时，你才是进入生活，有点随风飘荡，但不再作为。哪里有努力，哪里就依然有小我。当然你现在还是会做出一些努力，因为不是从真我出发。你知道一旦那个女孩到达极限，她会放手，让事情自行运转。那就是放手，让上帝来接手。
Professing faith, professing all these things doesn't do it. Actually having them does it. The fact that she has troubles is proof that she doesn't have the conviction of God because God is All, God is Perfect, and if God is All and God is Perfect, everything must be perfect, and that leaves no place for imperfection or troubles. If you take that attitude, so be it! So, it's the feeling that I am not the doer and that I let go and let it happen.
声称自己有信仰，声称自己信上帝是没用的。那女孩陷于麻烦，恰恰是不信上帝的明证。因为上帝就是全部，就是完美。如果上帝是全部，是完美，那么一切就都是完美的，完全没有不完美或麻烦存在。如果你抱持这种态度，那就成为这种态度，就是这种我不作为，让事情自行运转的感觉！
Q: I can't tell when I'm ego.
问：当我还是小我时，我说不准
Lester: When there's no effort, there's no ego. The more the effort the more the ego.
答：哪里不再有努力，哪里就没有小我。越做努力，小我越顽强。
Q: When the effort is extreme you have to more or less go the other way anyway.
问：当努力到极限却依然无济于事时，会或多或少地选择另一条路
Lester: Yes. I'm trying to give you a method of knowing whether it's ego or not. The more the effort the greater the ego. However, you're going to use effort until you're fully realized. Now, there will be times when you'll use no effort and everything will fall perfectly into line for you, so at times you'll be your Self.
答：是的。我给你的是辨别是否小我的方法，越做努力，小我越顽强。然而，在你开悟前，你是要努力的。开悟后就无需努力，但事情会按你想要的发生。
Q: Out doesn't this type of thing make you indolent, that you don't do any action? Is it that you shouldn't try to do anything, that's what I don't understand?
问：这样会不会让你变得懒惰，不再行动？你是说我们不应该努力做任何事，我不大明白
Lester: Indolence is an action, a negative action. It is the act of holding yourself from moving. Now it is impossible for you to be actionless. To achieve the actionless state you should try to let go of your ego more and more, because now you can't do it totally. If you could you'd be fully realized. But if you keep letting go of the ego, you will eventually drop it and be the witness and be not the doer. Does that make sense or have any meaning? Be not the doer. Let it happen. Have the feeling of it's God's world, whatever's happening, so let Him!
答：懒惰也是种行动，消极的行动，它让你保持不动。想要达到不动的境界，就要尽可能地释放小我，因为你现在还不能全然地不动。当你能全然地不动时，你就是开悟的。持续地释放小我，最终你会完全脱离它，成为全然的觉知。无需作为，只是让事情自行发生。无论发生什么，这都是上帝的世界。所以，让祂来接手！
Q: How do we get rid of problems?
问：我们怎么摆脱问题？
Lester: The moment you say, I have a problem, you're stuck, you are making it real! You can't get rid of a problem, because you are making it real. You've got it.
答：当你说我有问题的这一刻，你就卡住了，因为你让问题成真了！你不能摆脱问题，因为你让它成真了。
Q: So, if, when we have problems, we say, There is no problem at all, -will they vanish then?
问：所以，当我们有问题时，我们就说根本没有问题，这样就能消除问题了？
Lester: No. If you say, There's no problem, they won't vanish because you're saying, There's no problem. You're mentally holding the problem in mind and therefore sustaining it. Erase the problem from your mind.) Know that everything is perfect and then the problem is necessarily non-existent.
答：不能。因为你说没有“问题”时，你的头脑依然抓着问题。把问题从头脑中清除出去，知道一切都是完美的，这样问题就不复存在。
Q: Well, I think that way, that everything is really perfect.
问：我试着去想一切真的都是完美的
Lester: If you really do then everything must be.
答：如果你真的那么想，那么一切就必定是完美的。
Q: How easy it would be if we understood this from the beginning.
问：如果我从一开始就知道这个，那一切会很容易
Lester: Yes. You see, life, naturally, is totally effortless. There is no effort in life whatsoever if we would just be our natural Self. But we're trying to be a limited ego. That takes effort. It takes effort to be limited when your natural state is unlimited, and the more you try to be limited, the more effort it takes. But to be your unlimited Self it takes no effort. Just like your friend, when she got to the extreme she would let go and everything would straighten out, - with no effort. All the time she was trying and trying, things were getting worse and worse. But when she gave up and let go, -things resolved.
答：你知道，生活本来就是完全无需努力的。如果我们只是真我，生活就是那样的。但我们总是想要成为有限制的小我，这就需要努力了。越努力越有限制。但是成为无限的真我，却无需努力。就像你那位朋友，当她撑到极限，她会放手，这样事情会自行解决。她越努力，越想控制，事情越糟。但当她举手投降时，事情会解决。
Q: Well, she had to go out and look for a job, she had to go to an agent, she just couldn't sit down and wait.
问：她必须出去找份工作，去中介所，她不能坐以待毙
Lester: I say all she had to do was to let go and be herself. Then even if she locked herself in a chamber somewhere, the things would have come to her. You don't sit down and wait, you don't do anything. Just let go of the sense of doership. You just know that everything is perfect and then the slightest thought you have will quickly come into being. There's no limitation on God, the Self. Whatever you thought, would have to come into being if you let go, because you're invoking your infinite power, your Self. Nothing can stop it!
答：我会说她真正要做的是放手，成为她自己。这样哪怕她被锁在屋里，她想要的也会自动到来。不要等待，不要做其它任何事，只是释放想要作为的感觉。你已经知道一切都是完美的，那么即使最细微的念头也会成真。上帝是无限的，真我是无限的。如果你释放，不论你想什么都会成真，因为你激活了你无限的力量，你的真我。没有什么能够阻止它！
Q: But at the same time you have to struggle to get some action.
问：但同时你也要去行动啊
Lester: No, I said just the opposite, I say lock yourself in a chamber and padlock the outside of it and if you do what I'm saying you'll find that it will be effected. It has to be. Nothing can stop it! Omnipotence is invoked!
答：不，我说的正好相反。我说的是把你自己关在屋里，外面再挂上把锁，如果你按我说的做，你会发现它是有效的，它也必定如此。没有什么能阻止它，因为全能被启动了！
Q: What is prayer for, what does praying mean?
问：什么是祈祷？祈祷的真正含义是什么？
Lester: Praying is for those who need praying. When you know what you know, -to whom are you praying? If you are That, why do you have to pray to It? See, praying admits duality. I pray to God. Maintain your Oneness. However, when one prays it is best to pray for one thing only, more wisdom, so that you eliminate all need for any prayer, for any asking. It all depends on one's state of understanding. Most people in the world today need to pray. But prayer admits duality, God is out there. And we should know that God is within. Even though Jesus said, The kingdom of God is within, we still look for God without and He's not out there, He's only within. He turns out to be our very own Beingness. The word I with nothing added to it is the God we seek. When you say I am something, -that isn't, or I and something, that too isn't God. But just pure I and only I, that is God. That is why it is said that God is closer than flesh, it's I, and how close is I? It's closer than the flesh is, and that is God, your very own Self!
答：祈祷是为那些需要祈祷的人而准备的。当你知道你所知道的，你还向谁祈祷？如果你就是祂，为何还要向祂祈祷？你看，祈祷恰恰承认了二元性，“我”向“上帝”祈祷。保持“一”的意识！但是，如果你要祈祷，就只祈祷更多的智慧，这样你就能消除对祈祷的需求。这完全取决于你领悟的次第。当今世界大多数的人依赖祈祷。但祈祷承认了二元性，上帝在外面。但我们应该知道，上帝是在我内。虽然耶稣已经说了，上帝的王国在我内，我们却依然向外寻找上帝。但是祂是在我内，是我们的临在。单纯的“我”这个字，指的就是我们所寻求的上帝。当你说“我”是什么什么，那不是真的；或者“我”和什么什么，那也不是真的。只有纯粹的“我”，并且只有“我”，才是上帝。这就是为什么说上帝比肉体还近，因为“我”即是上帝。“我”有多近呢？肯定比肉体还近。所以，“我”就是上帝，你的真我。
Q: That's a very good feeling.
问：那感觉很好
Lester: Yes, because it's reminding you of what you know subconsciously, that you are that Self. Just hold onto the word I only, I, I, I, I, and you'll become more exhilarated. Just try it when you're alone. Just I, I, I, and not I am a body, I am a mind, but I I, I, -that feeling of Being. I think the word that describes God more than any other single word is Beingness. God is all Beingness. We are, when we look within, all Beingness pretending we're a tiny part of It, a limited body mind. But when you look within you'll see that you are all Beingness. Beingness is God! Beingness is also Awareness, Consciousness. They are the same thing. Later on, you'll see them as identica答： Beingness, Awareness, and Consciousness.
答：是的，因为它提醒了你潜意识所知道的，那就是你就是真我。所以持住“我”这个字，只有我，我，我，这样你会变得更喜悦，尤其当你独自一人时。只是我，我，我，而不是我是这具身体，我是这颗头脑。我想描述上帝最精确的词就是“临在”，上帝就是全在。当我们外求时，全在假装成我们只是它极小的一部分，我们只是有限的身体头脑。但当我们往内看，就会发现你就是全在。临在就是上帝，临在也是觉知、意识。它们都是同一个东西。临在、觉知、意识都是同一的。
So be your Self and there never will be a problem. Seeing a problem in the world is trying to be a limited ego-body-mind. If you think you have a problem, you do. If you'll just accept that God is AU, God is Perfect, that's all there is and look at Perfection, that's all you'll ever meet with!
所以，成为真我，如此问题便不复存在。发现问题就是试图成为有限制的小我-身体-头脑。如果你认为你有问题，那你就是有问题的。如果你能单纯地接受上帝就是全部，就是完美，那么你看到的就只有完美。
Q: Then we have to wipe out the word problem.
问：那我们就必须消除词汇所带来的问题？
Lester: Yes. You have to wipe out the words problem, can't, don't, won't, all negative words. In the future when man is in a state of harmony all these words will disappear.
答：是的。你必须消除，比如“不能”、“不要”、“不会”等这些负面词汇。将来等到人类步入和谐之境时，所有负面词汇都会消失。
Q: As you progress more on the path so many things seem so much more superficial. I don't know if that's progress or if I'm becoming indifferent to the world around me.
问：随着你越来越精进，好多东西都看起来变得浅薄。我不知道这是进步还是意味着我对这个世界越来越冷淡。
Lester: Well, that also is progress, being indifferent, i.e., non-attached.
答：变得冷淡也是进步，因为不再执着。
Q: I really couldn't care less about politics or all these things which at one time seemed so important. Is that bad?
问：我实在做不到不去关注政治或所有这些在某段时间看起来重要的事。这是否很糟？
Lester: How does it feel?
答：你自己觉得呢？
Q: I haven It analyzed the feeling, I've just seen that all these people think what they're doing is so important, maybe I'm wrong in that I don't feel that way.
问：我不知道。我看到所有这些人都觉得他们所做的是重要的。也许我跟他们的感受不同是错误的。
Lester: No, you are right. The higher you go the more you see the Perfection and therefore the less you see the problems. The more one sees problems, the lower one is. What youre talking about is problems. The people who see them want you to be the way they are, and will ten you that you're wrong. This is one thing you must be on guard against. As you grow those who are not up to you will try to pull you down to where they are. Let them think you are wrong. You know you are right! Don't argue. It's fruitless.
答：你是对的。随着你境界越来越高，你将看到更多的完美，这意味着你看到的问题越少。一个人看到的问题越多，他所处的阶段就越落后。看到问题的人希望你也能看到问题，否则就说你是错的。这点是你必须要防御的。随着你不断成长，那些不能控制你的人会想方设法把你拉回去。就让他们认为你是错的吧。你知道你是正确的就行。不要辩论，那毫无意义。
Q: I find that the people try to make me feel selfish because I feel that way. I don't know whether that's true or not, that's why I wanted to discuss it.
问：我发现人们总是让我感觉自己很自私，因为我也觉得自己很自私。我不知道这是否真的自私，所以我想谈谈这个问题。
Lester: It's this way, when you don't think the way they think, they call you selfish. Just check it out. This is what's going on, this is the way they think. When you don't think the way they think you are selfish. No, it's not how much you recognize a problem that shows unselfishness. It's how much you see that there is no problem and help others to see it that shows unselfishness. This way you offer help, you're very constructive and unselfish.
答：是这样的，当你所认为的与他们的不一致，他们管这叫自私。这就是他们思考的方式。但实际上，不是你看不到问题，就表明你有多么自私。而是你觉得那没有问题，并帮助其他人也意识到这点，这才是真正的无私。以这种方式助人，那你是有建设性的，是无私的。
Q: Just do everything with a desire to help and that is love.
问：以助人的心做事，那就是爱？
Lester: Yes, just feel love, you don't necessarily have to do. Love, -and your thoughts are positive. Thought is far more powerful than action. It's the basis of and effects action. It's the initiator, comes before it and determines action. A realized being sitting in a cave somewhere all by himself is doing more good for the world than organizations of action. He is aiding everyone, his help being subconsciously received by all.
答：是的，但只要感觉有爱，而未必付诸行动。你的念头都是正面的，这就是爱。念头的力量远远超过行动，是行动的基础，也影响行动。念头是发起者，在行动之前，并决定行动。一个开悟的人，哪怕只是独自坐在山洞里，他对这世界的贡献远高于那些行动组织。他帮助每一个人，所有人会在潜意识层面接收到他的帮助。
Now we're back to what we were talking about before: the bottom state is inaction, the middle state is action, the top state is inaction. The bottom state is one of apathetic inertia. It's destructive. It just wants to stop everything, actually destroy everything. The top state lets everything be just the way it is because everything is perfect and one in this state mentally and powerfully projects this to everyone. The middle state is the action state which moves you up from the bottom toward the top state of equilibrium. Now, as you move up, those who are not as far along as you are will try to pull you down to where they are.
现在我们又回到了之前所谈论的，那就是最低阶段是没有行动，中间的是行动阶段，最高阶段是不再行动。最低阶段是冷漠的，具有破坏性的，只想阻止一切，毁掉一切。最高阶段则是让一切如是，因为一切都是完美的，在这阶段的人会把这样的心念投射到每一个人身上。中间的阶段是行动阶段，是最低阶段和最高阶段之间的平衡。
Q: So, it's sort of a proving ground, or a testing, to see how much those things bother you.
问：所以，这就有点像试验场，为了测试那些事对你有多大的影响？
Lester: Yes. It tests your conviction. Where is your conviction if you go with them? If you go with them your tendency is to believe more the way they do.
答：是的，它测试你是否笃信。如果你随大流你还是笃信的吗？如果你随大流，你信的是他们那一套。
Q: Which is easier, I know.
问：随大流会更轻松
Lester: No, try it. If you think it's easier, just go their way and you'll have more misery as they do.
答：如果你认为随大流更轻松，那你就会随大流，其结果是你会和他们一样更痛苦。
Q: Sometimes 1 think it's easier to just be one of the mob.
问：有时我认为做一个暴徒更轻松
Lester: Desire for ego approval makes it seem easier. You'll find out otherwise. You've been one of the mob, haven't you? You've been like them. It's not easy. No, the right way is easier. Do you see that? The right way is letting go and letting God and then everything falls into line perfectly, -no effort. But when I have to do it, it's not God, it's me, the ego, wanting to do, to change things, correct this world, and so forth.
答：小我想要获得认同的欲望会使你认为做一个暴徒更轻松。但你会发现事实并非如此。你已经是暴徒的一员了，你已经和他们一样了，这并不轻松。正确的道路才更轻松，正确的道路就是放手，让上帝来接手，这样所有的问题都会自行解决。但是当我不得不做什么，那就不是上帝，那是小我，是小我想要做什么，想要改变这个世界。
Q: Would a mantra or something like that be the best thing to remember when these things come up that way?
问：当事情那样发生时，念祈祷文什么的是否最好？
Lester: Affirmations are always good. A mantra is an affirmation that's repeated again and again. Do whatever will help you to do and be what you think you should do and be.
答：誓言就可以。祈祷文是誓言的重复。做任何能帮到你的事，成为你认为应该成为的。
Q: That's what I don't know.
问：我不明白
Lester: To seek who and what you are, to know your Self, is the very best thing to do and be. There've been moments when you've let go and felt your real Self. How does it feel?
答：去探寻你是谁，你是什么，去发现你的真我，就是最好的事。在释放时你已经有过一些时刻，觉知到了真我。当时感觉如何？
Q: Marvelous, could I have it all the time?
问：太美妙了。我能一直持住它吗？
Lester: Yes, certainly, stay that way, that's all. Be what you are! You're infinite, omniscient, and omnipotent, right here and now. BE THAT! Stop being this limited, miserable, little ego.
答：是的，当然。待在那里，这就是你要做的全部。成为你的本然！此时此地，你就是无限，就是全知，就是全能。成为祂！而不是再去做有限的痛苦的渺小的小我。
Q: Well, I have the same problem he has and I thought I was' becoming indifferent.
问：我的问题和他的一样，我也认为自己正变得越来越冷淡
Lester: Yes, you're becoming indifferent to the negativity, and what's wrong with that? What is politics? It's a mechanism of force and control. In a society where everyone loves everyone do you need politics? If you want to help the world, help yourself grow, and you'll do far more than you could by being involved in politics. The more you're capable of loving, the more you're helping the world. Parliments cannot right the world, but enough people loving can. The President of the United States must necessarily represent the sum total consciousness, the sum total thinkingness, of all the people of the United States added together. Principle, divine law supersedes man-made law. Consciousness, thinkingness determines everything. The world out there is only our collective consciousness. If we dont like whats happening to us in the world, all we have to do is change our consciousness, -and the world out there changes for us!
答：是的，消极地看，你是变冷淡了，但是那又有什么不妥呢？政治是什么？政治是权力和控制的机制。在一个人人都相亲相爱的社会，还需要什么政治吗？如果你想帮助这个世界，那就让自己成长，这样你所做的贡献远比参与政治要来得大。你越有能力爱，你对这个世界的帮助就越多。国会无法矫正这个世界，只有足够的爱才能做到。美国总统必须代表的是所有美国人民的集体意识。让灵性法则取代人类法律，因为意识决定一切。这个世界不过是我们集体意识的投射。如果我们不喜欢发生在我们周围的事，我们唯一要做的就是改变我们的意识，外在世界就会跟着改变。
Q: But doesn't this sort of thing take a great deal of courage many times? Sometimes I don't really have the guts to be able to do the things I want to do.
问：但是很多时候这都需要极大的勇气，我没有这么大的勇气来做我想要做的
Lester: Alright, why don't you have the guts?
答：为什么你会没有勇气呢？
Q: I don't know.
问：我不知道
Lester: Ego. You want approval from them. You're seeking their approval; you want to go the way they want you to go.
答：因为小我，小我想要的就是获得认同。你想要获得他们的认同，所以你走他们想要你走的路。
Q: It isn't that I want their approval; I don't want their disapproval.
问：这不是我想要获得他们的认同，而是我不想要他们不认同我
Lester: Well, isn't that the same thing?
答：这不是一回事吗？
Q: I remember what you said last time: when you resolve a problem it doesn't come up again, and it's true. But then you get new ones. When you have solved something within your own mind and you know that you have come up a step on the ladder, it doesn't present itself again, which is a great help. But then there are always new problems.
问：我记得上次你说，当你解决了一个问题，这个问题便不再出现，也的确如此。但是会出现新的问题。当你在内在解决了一些事，你知道自己上了一个台阶，这些事不会再发生。但是总是会有新的问题。
Lester: There's no end to problems in the world. You go on and on forever and ever solving problems in the world, and you'll have more and more. As long as you are conscious of problems they exist. Only when you discover the real you, are there no problems!
答：这个世界的问题永无止境。你解决了一个又一个，永远都是在解决问题，而问题又会不断出现。只要你对问题保持觉知，只要你发现了真我，问题便不再出现。
What we do is we put our hand in a fire and say, Ouch, it's hot, my hand is burning. Boy, do I have a problem. That's all. When you see that you are doing it, you stop. If you have a problem, you're putting your hand into a problem and yelling, It hurts! and acting as though you're not putting your hand into it. You act as though you are not doing it. But you are. That problem is in your consciousness. It's in your mind. Change your mind, change your consciousness and immediately that problem is no more. Try it and you'll see that it's so.
你知道我们是在做什么吗？我们把手放到火上，然后大叫“烫死了”。年轻人，这就是我们所做的。当你发现是你在制造问题，你就会停止。如果你有问题，是你把手放进问题里面烤，然后大叫“疼死了”。看起来好像不是你主动把手放进去的，不是你创造的，但实际上就是如此。因为那个问题就在你的意识里，在你的头脑里。改变你的头脑，改变你的意识，很快问题便不复存在。尝试着这么做，你会发现事实就是这样。
Q: Last year when we were all together we were higher and we had fewer problems.
问：去年我们一起时，我们变得更精进，问题也越少
Lester: That's the prime purpose of coming together as a group. You're reminded of your direction. You're with people who are striving in that same direction and you're moving opposite to the way the world is moving. So keep positive company as much as possible. And when you are by yourself stop being what you are not, a limited body and mind, and just be what you are an Infinite, totally free, grand and glorious being, whole and complete.
答：这就是组团的主要目的。你是被指引来的。你和同道的朋友在一起，做着跟这个世界截然相反的事。所以尽可能地结伴。但当你独自一人时，不要再成为你所不是的样子，不要再成为有限的身体和心智，成为你的本然，那无限、自由、光辉的存在，完整而圆满。
How to see the ego? Every time there is a reaction to anyone or anything that reaction is ego motivated. Look within for the ego motivation and when you see it, let go of it. Each time an ego motivation is seen, the ego is weakened. To see ego motivation is to feel it, not just see it intellectually. The more it hurts, the more we are involved ego- wise.
如何看到小我？每次你对人事物起反应时，那就是被小我所驱动。往内看，去看小我是如何驱动你的，当你看到它时，就释放它。小我的驱动每被看到一次，就会被削弱一些。看清小我的驱动，不是用头脑去看，而是用心感受。我们越感到难受，那意味着我们越被小我所困。
