2021年1月9日，和音新语.NVC会客室安排了一场与吕靖安老师的大弟子——艾伦的对话。
艾伦•拉斐尔•赛德(Alan Rafael Seid)是一名突破性教练，指导那些想要改善自己，也想让世界变得更好的人。艾伦专门研究工具、过程和方法，让我们与自己、与他人、与地球和谐相处。
1995年，他开始与马歇尔•卢森堡博士学习NVC。他每年多次跟随卢森堡博士和其他认证培训师学习，直到1999年他参加了印度理工学院(IIT)的9天强化课程——同年，CNVC执行董事加里•巴兰建议他考虑获得认证。同年，艾伦飞往南美洲的哥伦比亚，担任卢森堡博士的西班牙语翻译。艾伦在2003年完成了NVC认证。他的NVC学习一直持续到今天。自从获得认证以来，已经与无数个人、夫妇和家庭合作，并在政府、学术、非营利和商业部门进行培训、引导和调解会议。曾受邀在联合国2019年“实现可持续发展目标”大会上发言。他的认证评估师是吕靖安（Lucy Leu）。
下面是对这场对话的整理。
主持人：
Alan,在我前面的预告里边有大概介绍过他一点，我觉得他跟其他的培训师是都非常的不一样，因为他看起来很年轻。而且你看他的造型非常的百变，还有我看到他整合了一套卡拉帕的这样的一个体系，帮助一个人全方位的去活出自己的生命，去全方位的做个人的成长。然后通过个人的成长给这个世界去带去积极的影响，不管这个世界是我们周围身边的世界，还是说整个的世界，这个卡拉卡它是一个梵语，它的英文的对应的本意是一捆一包，那也就是说是一个打包在一起的，一个完整的体系，所以它包括一些过程、工具、方法、模式等等这些东西，我也想给大家稍微看一下。
卡拉卡模型，我也想请艾伦跟我们介绍一下，他是怎样发展出来的，而且我还好奇的为什么是这几个，而不是别的？
比如在北边是意识的整合，然后在东北是整合个人的练习和实践，东部是非暴力沟通，东南是生活方式的设计、愿景表现形式，南部是财务、正直和 ikigai。我到现在也不知道ikigai是什么，我需要跟他问一下。西南是自然意识和耕种，好像跟农作是有关的，但具体是不是也不太确定。西方是社区和我们的社群，西北是我们的痛苦悲伤的部分，还有跟祖先去疗愈的部分。
我想先暂时的介绍在这里，然后我们就把时间就放在接下来跟Alan的对话上。
首先很感恩Alan能够答应我的邀请来到这里跟大家见面。然后我请Alan先跟大家打个招呼，然后请他来说一说，他为什么会答应我的邀请来到这里能满足他什么需要。
Alan:
在这里先跟新老朋友们打个招呼，然后也谢谢Sam和 Lisa邀请。我来到这里。
我感到非常的幸运，因为我在16岁的时候就已经发现了我的生命目标。
大家听到Summer刚才在介绍的时候有提到过几次卡拉帕这个词，卡拉帕这个体系是Alan从1987年就开始在发展了。
这个工作是从我对我所学的或者说一些东西的理解发展而来的。
我的理解是，从恐龙时代开始，我们整个地球上或者星球上的这些生命正在经历一些巨大的物种变革的时代。
整个大自然它并不仅仅是一个让我们去攫取资源地方，或者是让我们去倾泻污染它的一个地方。
这个星球给我们提供了干净的水，空气，还有肥沃的土壤让我们去种植植物。
Way human society is structured is destroying are very own life support systems.
我们人类的目前的结构，其实从某种程度上来讲是毁灭星球。
The question I started with when I was 16 in 1987 was.
所以在1997年，也就是当我16岁的时候，发展出来了这样的一个问题。
The question I started with was what are the most effective or the most powerful tools, processes, methodologies for living in harmony within ourselves, with each other and with planet earth.
我在那时所提出来的最有力量的问题，就是我们可以做一些什么，或者说用什么样的一些工具方法，一些生活方式，让我们可以和谐的跟一切共处或者在一起生活，比如说我们内在的和谐，人际关系的和谐，包括和整个地球的一种和谐，
Nonviolent communication is one of those tools.
非暴力沟通就是去创造各个层面的和谐的一个工具。
I met doctor Marshall Rosenberg began studying nonviolent communication in 1995.
我在1995年遇到了马歇尔卢森堡博士，也是从那个时候开始跟他学习非暴力沟通。
I've been doing nvc work for some time.
所以 NvC的领域到现在为止，我已经经过了这么长的一段时间了，一直在这个领域里。
And Very grateful for summer and lease us invitation because it meets my needs for contribution.
然后非常感激丽萨和夏天的邀请，因为这满足了我贡献的需要。
Next question.
主持人：
谢谢你Alan。 I do have a question。 I'm curious that what is your life purpose？ How do you find it at such a young age？What kind of because I'm an educator。So what kind of support you get from your parents or teachers so help you to find your life purpose？我又有一个问题出现了，因为刚才我看Alan说他16岁的时候就找到了他的生命目标，所以我好奇的就是他怎么可以在那么年轻的时候，就16岁的时候就可以找到他的生命目标。他周围的人，比如说他的父母，他的这个老师是怎么帮助他，去找到他的生命目标的？
Alan:
I heard two questions. One, what is my life purpose? and two,How did I find it? I'll answer the first question first. Do you want to translate that part?
我听到两个问题，一个是什么是他的生命目标，第二个问题是他在找到生命目标的时候得到了什么样的支持？
I can article eight my life purpose in different ways.
我可以用不同的方式来表述我的生命目标。
But essentially there's something happening. I'm planning earth. There are two movements. They're happening across the planet. I think they're unstoppable.
在不同的表述里边，我认为说它的核心就在于地球实际它在发生这两种无法停下来的运动。
One of those movements, I call the consciousness revolution.
一种叫做意识觉醒。
And the other movement I call the ecological sustainability revolution.
另外一种我把它叫做是生态可持续发展的运动。
How to live in harmony with nature.
如何与自然和谐的相处。
I see my life purpose as contributing to the expansion and the speeding up of these two movements.
我的生命目标就是帮助去扩展和加速这两个运动。
The consciousness revolution is about waking up.
觉醒就是从字面意思上来讲，就让我们醒过来，清醒。
It's about living with integrity. And love. And how to be a service,How to develop the parts of yourself to live your potential.
也就是说我们带着爱,内外一致的去生活。如何以一种服务的态度，一个服务的方式，去发展我们每个人身上不同的部分，去活出我们所有的潜能，
And the ecological sustainability revolution recognizes that our society is unsustainable.
生态可持续发展的革命，他认识到我们的社会是一个不那么可持续的一个过程，去认识他，然后在这个方面做一些事情。
So that answer is the first question, I think.
所以我想到现在为止，我已经回答了第一个问题，
Would you like me to answer the second question?
I think that answers the first question.
现在我可以到第二个问题了吗？
I have about nine books in my head.
我的脑袋里有9本书。
I have two written in rock draft.
还有两本我是把它用手写了下来。
Of the two i've written 150 book and the other is a much more personal book that tells some of my story.
我写的这两本书里边一本是关于非暴力沟通的，另外一本它是一个关于个人的发展的，也就是说我写下了我自己的故事。
And the title of this book is my great grandfather escaped prison dressed as a woman.
那本书名字还是叫做我的曾祖父，扮成了一个女士，逃离了监狱。
In the late 1800s, he was living in the village in you cream.
在18岁的时候，在那个年代他是住在乌克兰。
And the stars army was recruiting all the young men to join the Russian Japanese war.
在那个时候所有的年轻人都被招募去部队里打俄国和日本的战争。
He said, I will not raise a gun against another human being.
他说我不会朝着另外一个人类去开枪，
I have II I was born into these lineages of change makers, people who want to make a positive difference on both sides of my family.
所以我就是在这样的一个积极的这个氛围里边去，想要给社会或者世界带来积极改变的这样的一个家庭里长大的。也许我们的这个方式是不一样的。
I was born in the United States, but I grew up in Mexico.
我是在美国出生的，但是我是在墨西哥长大的。 My mother Was born in Mexico and my father was from the United States.
我的母亲是墨西哥人，我的父亲是美国人。
I Always grew up bilingual BAE cultural and always have both nationality zw.
所以我是在两种文化两种语言体系下长大的，而且我也有两国的国籍。
So from a very young age, I was an insider of two culture cz, but I was also an outside of two culture cz.
所以在两种文化里，好像我既属于这两种文化，同时也是游离在两种文化之外的。
This from a very young age allowed me to have a mental flexibility to take different perspectives.
所以这样的背景就让我从很小的开始，就有这样的一个意识和这样的一个大脑的功能，然后就很灵活的用各种不同的观点看待问题。
My mother would say to me, Alan, before you're American and before your Mexican, you're human being, you're a citizen of the world.
我的妈妈常常跟我说，在你是美国人是墨西哥人之前，你是一个人类，你是一个世界公民。
She would say things to me like Alan, all the problems in the world are inter connected and inter related.
他跟我说，Alan这个世界上所有的问题都是相互有关联的，都是相互连接的，相互依存的。
Pollution of the oceans、 Climate change. Species extinction、Sexism、 Reece system、 Mistreatment of animals、Deforestation 、Poverty and homelessness
比如说海洋的污染、气候变化、生物的灭绝、还有性别和种族、虐待动物、森林被砍伐，还有那些贫穷无家可归的这样的事情。
All of these problems are inter connected and inter related.
所有这些问题都是相互有关联，相互有关系的。
You can work at work cause or you can work on the symptoms.
所以你可以成为这样的一个相互关联的事情里的一个原因，你的行为导致了这样一个事情，或者说你也成为了这样的事情发生以后的一个牺牲品。
But you'll be more effective if you work on root cost.
但是如果说我们能够在根源上，或者如果我们能作为在他导致这样的一些事情的根源，这样的角色去行为的话，我们的行为可能会更加的有效。
These are the kinds of things my mother would say to me.
这些就是我妈妈常常跟我说的事情。
These were some of the support I had for being open.
所以这就是我心态开放所能够得到的一些资源和支持。
When I understood what humans are doing collectively to our very own life support systems. I allow that Information to come in. It was very painful. But it let me to make this decision of wanting to contribute on these friends.
当我知道我们人类在一起相互连接，相互的依存，然后去支持到一个人去成长和发展，我就会让这样的信息进入到我的脑海里。这很痛苦。然后这就让我做出了一个决定，我希望会去给这个世界给别人去做贡献。
Does that answer the second question？我有回应到第二个问题吗？
主持人：
I do think and beyond my question。我觉得是回答到了我的问题，而且是远远超出了我的问题的范围。 I feel so touched when you share your what's your mother said to you？ As a mother of three children？I hope I can do something like your mother that to share this kind of Information with my children to that realize the interconnection and interrelated relationship in this world。
Yes。我非常的触动，然后Alan的妈妈会在他小的时候就给他传递了那样的一些信息，因为我自己也是三个孩子的妈妈，所以我也希望说我的孩子能够听到这样的一些信息，知道这个世界是怎么样相互依存的，可能一个人的成长真的是举宇宙之力，然后成就了一个人。
谢谢您。
好，还有我有一个好奇，就是说你在16岁找到你的生命的目标，有两个核心是意识的觉醒与生态可持续发展的运动。让我好奇的是非暴力沟通在你的kalapa里，它的意义是什么？ 以及你为什么要把非暴力沟通放在你在kalapa里.
Just now you mention that there are two movements, consciousness, revolution, and ecological sustainability revolution. I'm wondering that what's the mean of NVC in your club program or system? What's wrong and they see place and why do you put it there? Yeah.
I like the question. I want to answer succinctly.
Alan:
我很喜欢这个问题，我想简洁的回应一下。
I started my search and 1987 to find best practices for living in harmony within ourselves，with each other and with the planet。
我从1987年开始就开始了一系列的研究和探索，如何与自己、与他人以及人与人之间，还有跟星球之间共处。
8 years later when I met Marshall Rosenberg, I was not thinking NvC would be a primary tool or methodology.
直到我在1996年遇到马歇尔的时候，我刚遇到他的时候，也并不认为说非暴力沟通将会是在我的生命目标里扮演这么重要的一个角色。
But as a modality, NVC had 1 piece of the puzzle that no other modalities had.
在有一些方面的非暴力沟通，它可能就像是一个拼贴画里边的一块一样，他有的那个东西是在其他的任何领域里面都没有的。
And It's very, very powerful for preventing and resolve conflict, PSL and having a high quality relationships.
它是一种非常有力量的工具，可以去避免和化解冲突，去创造和谐的关系。
Would you like to see the eight areas of the kilometer.
大家愿意再看一下哪8个方面吗？
I can share it on the screen.
我也可以在屏幕上跟大家分享。
Is it showing let's see what's let's see. Here it is. What we have is something based on nature. It's the compass rose the directions.
kalapa模型是一种自然的模型，或者说它是以方位来命名的。
Every day, something every morning something happens in the east. The sun rises. Every day something happens in the west, the sun sets. We use the eight directions of the compass rose as a way of organizing these eight areas.
每天早上有些事情会从东方先开始发生。也就是说我们太阳会从东方升起。每天太阳会从西方落下。我就用这个罗盘一样的这个方位来命名不同的领域。
I put non violent communication in the east. There are seven more modules as well.
我把非暴力沟通放在了东方，其他还有7个领域。
主持人：
I have a second question。第二个问题是刚你提到你从1996年跟马歇尔开始学习非暴力沟通，然后你也在2003年去担任他西班牙的翻译之后取得培训师的认证，你可不可以跟我们分享一下你跟马歇尔相处的一些小故事？
You mention that you matt Marshall in 1996. Are there any impressive stories between you and Marshall or something related you like to share?
Alan:
Yes. 1995, actually I met him. And. Ii attended it the international intensive trainings with Marshall in 1999. Right from the it flew to Colombia, South America to work as martial Spanish interpreter for 10 days.
是的我在1995年遇到她。 我1999年参加了他举办的一个国际非暴力沟通的强化营。这之后我就一起跟马歇尔去了这个哥伦比亚就是南美的哥伦比亚，然后我在那里给他做了10天的西班牙语的翻译。
I learned more about NvC in those 10 days than in the previous 4 years of studying NVC.
作为西班牙语的翻译的角色，我在那10天里边学到的东西要超过我在前面4年里学到的东西。
At the end of that 10 days, we were doing a harvest of our time together celebrate and morning cz.
在10天结束的时候，也就是在最后一天会有一些庆祝哀悼的结束的活动。
And Marshall shared about a conversation he and I had that had been very painful for him.
马先生在那个活动里分享了一个我跟他之前的一个对话。这对话让他很痛苦。
It was a conversation we had in the car when we were going somewhere.
对话是我们俩去某个地方的车上发生的。
I used a lot more words than you. Then when You use a lot of words more than I used a lot more words and martial was enjoying.
我说的话远远超出了他喜欢的程度。
And That was not clear about my request. So After Marshall gave me the feedback. I listen to him with a lot of empathy, a lot of emppresence.
我也不清楚我的请求是什么。在马先给了我反馈之后。我就是用同理倾听的方式去听他说。
After he shared with me, I asked him. Marshall, what advice do you have for me so that this doesn't happen again?
然后我就问他,马歇尔你有什么建议吗？这样的话以后我能话少一点，然后请求也清晰一点，以后这种事情就不会发生了。
He said the following.
然后他就说了下面这样的话。
Before you open your mouth. Say it again before you open your mouth. Be clear on your present need and request. Before you even open your mouth knowing what you need and your request are。
在你张嘴之前，在你开口之前，清晰你当下的需要和你的请求。在你开口之前就要清晰你的需要和你的请求是什么。
I've been trying to live that ever since.
所以从此以后我就尝试把这句话当成了我的指引。
That's one story about Marshall.
这是马歇尔的一个故事。
主持人：
因为我们知道你的评估是Lucy吕靖安老师，我们很好奇的是，你跟Lucy之间的学习过程中，有些什么故事可以跟我们分享吗？
we know that your successor is Lucy lu. She attended this too, its we are wondering that are there any thing that you like to share about your process of being the trainer with her. How is your learning with her?
Alan:
I love Lucy. She is One of my heroes.
我爱静安。她是我的一个英雄。
I'll share a couple of anecdotes about Lucy.
我来分享关于Lucy的几个方面。
But I will say that Lucy teaches, by example, she lives in. That's how i've learned a lot.
Lucy是用身教的。她是那样生活的。她用她的生活来展示她的教学。
1 anecdote about Lucy was when I was invited to teach my very first introduction to NvC in 1998。 I emailed her and I said, do you think I'm ready?
我记得是1998年我在第一次受邀去做一次非暴力沟通介绍的时候。 我给她发了一封信，然后问她，你觉得我准备好了吗？我可以去分享了吗？
She said. Yes, you're ready. Just remember to teach it as a consciousness instead of a technique.
她说是的，你准备好了，要记得教nvc你教大家的是意识，而不是一个流程或者一个技能。
Another story about Lucy.
关于Lucy的另外一个故事。
When I did my assessment, we did it in her house in her living room.
我在做评估的时候，我是在她家里的客厅坐的。
There were a few people there five or six different people observing and there to support.
我们有五六个人在现场支持、观察。
They asked me questions about this part of NVC or that part of NVC.
他们问我nvc方面的各个方面。
I needed to demonstrate my understanding of key differentiation.
我需要去展示我对关键区分的一些理解。
But then Lucy said, Alan, I have a Challenge for you.
然后Lucy说，Alan我要挑战你一下。
She said, if you often in the assessments, we'll do a role play to test your skills.
她说我们常常在评估的时候，会做一个角色扮演，来挑战你。
But today we're not doing a role play.
但是今天我们不做角色扮演。
Have a real person with real anger toward you.
我这里有一个真人，他是对你真的有火。
She called in her husband at the time Peter.
他就把他的先生皮特叫过来。
Who is a big man? He was genuinely angry at me. I'm guessing I passed. That was a fun experience.
他长得非常的壮。然后他是真的很对我很愤怒。我猜我通过了考试。那是一个很有趣的经历。
I at the time I was living at their house. My partner and I were living in an apartment above their garage. And Peter and I had a misunderstanding about some help you want it.
那时我在他家里住了一段时间。我跟我的伴侣住在他们的车库的上面。然后我跟皮特之间就闹了一点误会。
He had been angry for a few months. I didn't know. Until my assessment.
然后他就生气了好几个月，但是我是完全不知道的。直到我评估那天我才知道。
Any other questions?
还有其他的问题吗？
主持人：
It surprised me and I guess it's a big Challenge。我很好奇的问题是就是在你关于道歉的分享里，视频里你说勇气不是没有恐惧，勇气是充分的感受恐惧并采取下一步行动。
我好奇的就是在你评估时，当你看到对方那么生气时，你会不会有恐惧？然后当时你是怎么跟你的恐惧相处，并且去采取你的下一步的 what is in your video clip of sharing for given issue said？Remember that courage is not the absence of fear。Courage is feeling fully afraid and then taking the next step。So what my curious curiosity is that moment in your assessment，one Peter is so angry about you。How do you live with your anger and move forward to go through that process？
Alan:
I think I was more nervous than afraid.
我想在那个时候我是更多的是紧张，而不是恐惧。
NvC has three areas.
非暴力沟通有三个方面。
Honesty, empathy and Self-connection.
有诚实表达，有同理倾听，也有自我连接。
In that moment giving myself some self empathy.
所以在那个时候我就自我同理。
In silence.
而且是在安静地进行自我同理。
Which may have sounded something like I'm feeling very nervous and I hope I can create a better relationship with Peter and also passed my assessment.
我通过自我同理，就像这样一手握着心，一手意识的层面去把它想出来，把想表达的话说出来，我想跟皮特有一个好关系，同时能通过我的考试。
So some self empathy and I had enough practice with having courage in front of other people also.
我也做了很多的练习，让我能够有勇气站在大家面前。
Some of that came from doing a little bit of theater in high school. I saw that getting up in front of people is less scary.
其中的一部分对处理过程有帮助的是我记得在高中的时候我做一些戏剧。在那个时候我就培养了一些勇气，所以说在评估的时候就站在人面前的时候，可能恐惧就会少一些。
主持人：
So you mean practice makes people feel last year，right？
是不是练习就能让人少恐惧一点？
Alan:
I don't know if it makes them feel less fear, but it might have made them increase their courage in the same in the for the same amount of here, I don't know.
不知道练习会不会人能让人的恐惧变少，但是练习能够让人的勇气增加，也许能跟恐惧增加到一样的高度，一样多。
After giving myself self empathy, then I could give Peter empathy.
我在可以自我同理以后，我就能够把同理倾听给到皮特了。
After he was heard, he wanted to hear from me. I shared my honesty.
在他被倾听到以后，他就愿意来倾听我了，然后我就可以表达我自己。
Did I answer the question?
我有回应到你的问题吗？
主持人：
是的，很好。
我看到Alan在联合国发表了一个演说，我好奇的是你在联合国演说的主题跟非暴力沟通之间有没有什么关联？
I saw you had a speech or presentation in us sustainability conference last year in 2 or 19. Do you use a missing unit and what is the experience for you?
Alan:
At the United Nations. Iii presented an introduction to not by communication. It was fun to get invited to speak at the United Nations. The conference was about emotional Intelligence, mind, fullness, and NvC.
我在那里就是在介绍非暴力沟通。被邀请去联合国发言还是很有乐趣的一个事情。那个会议是关于情商关于正念还有非暴力沟通的。
And People like my talk a lot, it was very fulfilling.
大家很喜欢我的演讲，然后印象很深刻。
主持人：
I remember that in that speech， I saw that speech， so but I cannot remember it clearly。Now you said at the beginning you said that people stretch their body and do some exercise and you said between your body and what is your mind？Something。 Could you repeat that again？ Order。 That is best me a lot。
I I what I mentioned to the audience is that mind and body are only separate in language.
我看到在联合国的演讲上，艾伦在一开始的时候邀请大家活动身体，现在大家也可以活动活动身体，然后在活动身体的时候 Alan提到了一句话，那句话当时特别的触动我，他说在我们的大脑和我们的身体之间产生分离的那个东西，就是我们的语言。我再重复一遍这句话,即：我们的语言让我们的大脑和身体分开了。
Alan:
And people wiggle their toes, move their toes. And then ask, do you feel ?that people said yes.
我让人动了动脚趾头，我问他们说你感觉到了吗？他们说是的。
They said your mind is down there, because the brain is a physical organ but the mind goes beyond the brain .
然后我就跟他说你的思想就去到了那里。我们的脑袋是一个物理的器官，就是这个人身体上的器官在这里，但是我们的思想是不受脑袋的限制的，是可以去到任何地方的。
So you mean that is if we let me further proving the question. So you mean that if we can go beyond the language, our mind and body can be connected and integrated into a whole person. Is it?
Is it actually what I'm saying is your mind and your body are already integrated. But in language, we talk about them separately. They're only separated language. They're not separate in reality.
在现实的层面，我们的思想大脑和身体它本身就是整合的是一体的，但是当我们用语言去表述的时候，我们似乎是把这两者做了一个区分，然后把我们的思想跟我们的整个人的整合给分开了。
As we learn and grow, we become more conscious.
当我们学习成长，我们就会对这个方面更有意识。
We can become more aware of our body or of our senses. They're already not separate.
我们可以渐渐更多的去觉知道我们的身体，我们的感觉，但是在现实的层面或者事实的层面，他们是并没有区分的。
主持人：
Thank you for this。And I'm wondering now it pulls me to another question that's uh。 How we can develop ourselves and to where we develop ourselves to contribute to the world。所以我就很自然的把我引向了好奇的下一个问题，就是说我们个人的成长如何进行，然后我们要成长到什么地方去，这样我们就能够去支持世界的发展，或者说去给这个世界做贡献？
Human consciousness, grows there I there's a summary of how human consciousness grows. Keep it down at the moment.
You mean consciousness grows in the following way.
对人的发展来讲，它是有一个过程的，是用这样的一个方式来进行发展的。
We move from ego centric.我们首先是从这个小我为中心的角度开始往前发展。
We go from egocentric to ethnocentric only people who look like me
然后下一步就是发展到了只去接纳跟我一样的群体的这些人。
From ethnocentric to socioeconomic centric. So only people from my society or my culture. No.
然后说可能再往前发展的话，在我的社会里或者我的文化里的这些人我能够接受。
To world centric. Everybody matters.
然后再发展到说我是从一个世界的角度，以世界为中心，在这样的一个角度我能够接受。
You're compassionate. Embrace grows from me to us, to all of us.
所以我们的慈悲就是这样一步一步成长出来的，从对自我的慈悲到对我们的慈悲，但再到整个世界的慈悲。
There are also multiple intelligences.
同样我们每个人都有不同的智能。
Schooling emphasizes cognitive, rational, mathematical Intelligence.
在学校我们学一些东西的时候，它发展的是比如我们的认知，我们的逻辑等等这些方面的智能。
Many other intelligences that humans possess.
但是人类拥有的不只是这个方面的智能，还有其他方面的。
For example, emotional Intelligence、 Moral Intelligence、Musical Intelligence、This petty Qin tele Gia nce in your body.
比如说情商、美德的智能、音乐以及我们身体的智能运动智能
Not all children Three live in the cognitive mathematics, a little logical Intelligence.
所以对于孩子的发展来讲，并不是说每个孩子都是通过这样的认知技能去成长的，去让他自己生命很繁荣的。
We can look at our various intelligences and see where we're higher, where we're lower so that we can see which parts of us we need to grow.
所以从智能的角度来讲，我们也可以去看一下我们哪一个方面的智能是比较高的，哪一个方面的智能可能是需要去发展的。
Some of us might need to heal old or old trauma to bring that into the present, heal ourselves so that then we can keep growing and transforming because this thing that isn't healed kind of holds us back.
也许对有的人来说，可能是需要去疗愈那些旧的痛苦或者创伤，然后让那些东西疗愈他们之后，我们就可以回到现在，然后去进行变革，进行转化。因为那些东西如果他一直在的话，可能会一遍一遍的把我们拽回到过去。
Kalapa actually gives us eight different areas in which we can grow our leadership capacities.
所以kalapa就提供了这样一个完整方面，通过这8个方面，我们就可以去增长我们的领导力的技能。
主持人：
I'm curious that for so many years of learning avc and living avc because we say living and we see but it looks to me it is a it's a value concept. And I'm afraid that sometimes if we use the phrase leaving nac it could be a box to put yourself in. I'm curious for you. How do you understand living NVC and how do you deal with it?
我们知道在nvc的沟通里，我们有一个词叫做活出NvC，这个活出NvC有时候可能对有一些人来讲，它就好像是一个很模糊的概念，而且是就好像把nvc就变成了一个箱子或者一个盒子，就把人框住了。我好奇的是Alan这么多年在学习和实践非暴力沟通，他是怎么来理解这一点的，然后他是怎么来实现这一点的？
Alan:
Marshall Rosenberg said he was not perfect at NVC.
即使是非暴力沟通的创始人马歇尔，他也说他在非暴力沟通方面并不是完美的。
He would encourage all his students to be willing to take imperfect action.
他也去鼓励他所有的学生有意愿去做一些不完美的行动。
Living it means I'm doing my best to live in.
所以活出NvC的意思就是我尽力的去活出它。
because We need to understand that NvC is primarily the consciousness that I bring to my interaction actions.
所以我们首先要了解的是非暴力沟通它是一种意识，我们在跟人互动的过程中把这种意识带进去。
If I have the intention to create a high quality of connection. And from the quality of connection, we can find mutually beneficial outcome.
如果我是带着这样的去创造一种高品质的连接意图，去跟人互动的话。在这种高品质的连接基础上，我们就可以去找到对双方都有益处的结果或者目标。
That might be one way of living in DC.
这可能是我活出NvC的一种方式。
But maybe there's somebody I don't want to elaborate with.
也许我可能不想跟某些人合作。
I notice all I'm in pain. Maybe I need some empathy.
然后我会意识到我很痛苦，可能那时我需要得到一些同理倾听。
That also could be living in nvC.
那也可以被叫做是活出的nvc。
We have these three areas, honesty, empty and self connection.
我们把NvC用在三个方面，同理倾听自我，同理他人还有诚实表达。
When we become more skilled in nvc we can move easily between these three areas that we can move between honesty, between empathy and between self connection fluently.
当我们的 NvC的技能很熟练的时候，我们就能够很容易的在这三个方面去流动。
for me, you don't need to be perfect and then nvC to be living in DC.
对我来说,活出NvC并不代表着说一定是完美的。Let me see。
You have the intention and you do your best.
带着连接的目的，尽可能的做到你能做到的最好。
I do have one more question。I don't know if you're waiting to answer the question。 I think it's last year。 It's a personal thing。I use a personal thing to ask the question。 I think last year that obviously I can see somebody cross my boundary like， let me do something that is not in my area。 For example，it is my workshop。But somebody asked me to write down another trainers name and contact in it。 It's a request，but it looks like he's not open for the outcome。 So I have the pain inside and I told him I I'm not willing to do that and then he told him， then he told me， no matter what other people do，you can still leave your value。So that creates a lot of pain inside of me。I don't know because my value is integrity，honesty，collaboration， leaving NvC those kind of things somebody asked me to do something already not in my in my comfortable thing or looks like cross some kind of boundary。
I'm wondering that in that time，how do you live in the nac how do you balance？
我记得去年的时候，我就不说具体的事情.举一个例子，比如在我的工作坊上，去写上别人的名字和联系方式，而且听起来是一个请求，但是并不是一个对结果保持开放的一个请求。我就跟他说我不愿意做这个事，这已经超越了我的界限.但是因为我又很看重这种诚实合作，想活出nvc，然后他也跟说不管别人做什么，你都可以去活出你的价值观来。这时我内在有很多的折磨和痛苦。我不知道在那个时候怎么样去平衡，即既要遵从自己的价值观，同时也要去照顾到别人的需要？
Alan:
It sounds like it was a very painful situation .I just want to remind all of us that nothing in nvc guarantees that 100% of our needs will be met 100% of the time.
所以听起来这是一个很痛苦的状况。
我也想提醒一点，非暴力沟通，它不可能百分百的去满足我们百分百的需要。
In a situation like that. We still have the three areas of ndc honesty, empathy and self connection.
在那个时候，我们依然还是有这三个方面的诚实表达，同理倾听，自我同理。
We still have the four options for how to interpret any message.
我们依然还可以有那4种方式去解读别人，给我们的或者回应别人给我们的这些话。
I judge them for asking.
比如说我评判他们这么来问我，要求我。
I judge myself for not wanting to.
我评判自己，我不愿意那么做。
I have compassion for why their request is hard for me. I have compassion for myself.
我也可以来对自己有一些慈悲。我为什么不想那么做？
And then I might be able to have compassion for what needs they're trying to meet by asking for that strategy.
然后我也可以对他们有一些慈悲，他们为什么会去那么问？
Even if I understand their needs, that doesn't mean it works for me to do it.
即使说我能够了解到他的需要，但是也不代表说我一定要去答应那件事情。
Empathy is not agreement.
同理倾听不是“同意”不是一定要做到，
And also, we have3 ingredients to really become fluent and investing.
同样我们还有三个配方可以让我们去进一步的练习和使用非暴力沟通。
The first in greed Ian is interior Clare at.
第一个配方，我们要很清晰。
What's happening for me? What am I feeling? What am I meeting? What am I wanting?
我这里发生了什么，我的需要是什么？我的感受是什么？
The second greed Ian is a community of support.
第二个就是社群的支持。
The third is practice.
第三个就是练习再练习。
Some the situation you described is one where if I were in that situation, I might want to turn to my community of support to get empty to get perspective. That can be very helpful to have your community of support.
在刚才我提到的情形中，如果是我的话，我也许会到社群中去寻找一些支持，得到一些倾听，然后听听大家的想法。
Sometimes all we're left with is morning.
有时候可能最后的结果是哀悼。
We just acknowledge that something is hard there we have an unmet need.
我们就是去意识到或者承认有一些需要是没有得到满足的。
We feel the sadness, the disappointment while staying connected to the meat.
我们依然可以跟未满足的需要连接，然后跟自己的难过、跟自己的痛苦去相处。
Doctor Marshall Rosenberg used to call that life connected mourning.
马歇尔曾经把它叫做是与生命连接的哀悼。
主持人：
I feel the stone in my heart was thrown away now. And there are space in my heart now. Ii suddenly find out at that time when the other person said he is sad. One thing heard I didn't want to do that. I feel so guilty in my heart because that person is someone I really respect. Ii cannot be open to the needs of him not met. I feel so painful in my heart. Ii load all the burden in my heart. So thank you. It's really make me slow. Now your answers make me flow. Now I can acknowledge there's pain there are on that need. And morning for that.
It's fine。 Thank you so much。我发现心里的那块石头掉了。因为在那个事情发生时，因为我对来问我那个问题的人是有很多的尊重在的，所以当他听到我说我不愿意去放的时候，他说他很难过，然后我就会觉得很内疚，会觉得我没有去满足他的需要，我没有去跟他一直那样去保持一个连接。
然后刚才Alan的回应让我知道,我是可以去哀悼，有一些需要是没得到满足的，我可以去放开一定要去满足他的需要、让他高兴的执念了。
所以我觉得心里的石头掉了，然后现在开始有流动了。我觉得有一种特别释然的感觉。Ii feel very relieved now。Thank you。It's very touching。Thank you。It's very powerful。 You heard me and我觉得我在刚才的过程中被深深的同理、理解到了I was understood by you。Deeply。 Thank you so much。
I love how we can be here for each other.
我喜欢这样，我们能够同在用这样的一个方式同在刚才我看到有人在讨论区说，他谢谢我，因为他也有同样的问题，所以我不知道对提问的预定来说，这个是不是你也有跟我一样类似的体验，觉得被理解了，被同理到了，然后就在这短短的几分钟内好像就大石头就掉了。他说是的。谢谢您。 I checked with her。Does she feel the same that she was heard？She was understood？ The stone was dropped？She said， yes。我们就这样。Thank you so much。 My question doesn't only contribute to myself，also contribute to others as well。
我很高，高兴我的问题不光是对我自己做了贡献，也能对别人有所贡献，谢谢大家。
Can I ask one more question? This is from the audience here she asked, how do you evaluate the outcome and effective this of the system you invented?
Alan:
kalapa is made up of processes and methodologies from other places. Each of these bodies of knowledge have their own management and assessment methods. For example, there is a whole body of research just on online communication. Scholarly academic PhD level research on the effectiveness of NVC. All the tools in kalapa have already been verified.
卡拉帕它是不同的方面不同领域的一个整合。这8个方面它每1个体系都有它自己的1个评估。比如说在非暴力沟通这个领域，就有跟他的完整的研究和评估。从学术的层面讲，就是有一些博士什么的，他们已经在评估nvc的有效性。所以卡拉帕的这8个方面都已经被证实。
However, kalapa as a system is still fairly young. It's a very, very baby tree. Like that's make.
但作为一个系统来讲，卡拉帕从整个历史长河中来讲，他还是比较年幼的。 它是一棵小树苗。
In the future, we may be able to develop ways to evaluate the effectiveness when it's different, tools and processes are combined the combined effect. We might be able to study that sometime in the future.
也许在未来不久，我们会把原来是8个方面各自评估的，把它整合在一起，变成一个有8个方向在一起的1个整体的评估，我们可以去做一些方面的评估。
But I only drew from established systems. Galapa is based on established systems.
卡拉帕是建立在已有的系统或者已有的体系之上的，
Could you share with me？One thing that people experience your club tell you how it's a it affect their life， what they learn from it。我想请Alan给我们分享一个在学过卡拉帕的人或者经历过这个的人是如何影响到他们的生活的。
Alan：
People report two things. Generally actually three,
通常学过卡拉帕的人会跟我来分享三个方面的事情。
One is generally people report feeling more connected to an interior sense of possibility in their lives. They're more clear about how to be of service or how to have a positive impact in the world.
那一个是人们会说他们会觉得生活里边跟自己内在的那种有了更大的可能性，有了更多的连接。 他们就更清晰怎么去服务，或者怎么去给这个世界带来更大的影响。
The third thing is that the program tends to draw very high quality people. And so people talk about the community and the connections and the that's a big positive also for people.
还有这个项目本身它会吸引到来学的人都是素养非常高的一些人，所以他们会谈到在这个社群里面就觉得有很多的共鸣，很多的连接。
主持人：
can you share how we can contact you or how we can join you in kalapa maybe on the screen or for people to know where to find you lost。
所以我请Alan跟我们来分享一下，怎么能够找到他，怎么能够更多的去了解它的卡拉帕的这些方面，虽然是英文的，但是我们也期待后面跟能够邀请到Alan跟到我们中国或者跟我们中国的社群或者来到这里的大家分享它的卡拉帕是什么？
大家可能发现我们今天的对话可能不只是在非暴力沟通的层面，虽然最后我问的问题给了我那么大的一个触动。
但是对我突然发现它是从一个更宽阔的视角在使用非暴力沟通，他带着那8个方面，然后把8个方面放在了非暴力沟通这1个里边来跟我们做了今天的这样一个分享。
Like I said, galapa is very young. We don't even have a website yet.
就像我说的卡拉卡他很年轻，我觉得Alan好谦虚，因为他的卡拉帕其实已经发展了好多年了，而且它的社群是很大的一个社群，他们刚刚结束了一个上千人的在线的互动的活动，但是他还这么说，就小树苗对。
Before I know it, we already been together more than 1.5 an hour now. Ii know it's your dinner time. Various. So before we finished anything you like to share to the audience here or to the Chinese embassy community and we hope we can have more interactions with you, invite you to do some Chinese or more sharing with us. So anything you like to say to us.
Alan:
I would just to wish everybody a wonderful day.
我希望大家今天度过美好的一天。
Remember that you can never stop learning and growing. Learning and growing can happen for the whole rest of your life. And be gentle with yourself. That's all I have。
我们每个人不管是有意识还是无意识的，我们都是在成长，都是在学习.我们生命的剩下的时间每一个时间都是在成长和学习。对自己温和一点，温柔一点。这就是我想说的。
Thank you very much for inviting me to this conversation. I appreciate it.
谢谢，也感激大家的在这里.谢谢大家的邀请。
主持人：
Thank you。And I really appreciate for your presence，your time and energy to be here。I'm looking forward to meeting you again very soon。Someone said the weather is very nice here。 I feel so sunny in my heart after I hear you're sharing。
Looks like you're like the light in the sky to light everyone.Everyone's heart。
我觉得今天的感觉就好像是天空中的束光来点亮我们内心的感觉，所以很轻松，也非常的非常的舒服，而且很有洞见，也很有深度的过程。对，但是因为确实是时间有限，我们已经说了快1一小时40分钟了，我也不忍心耽误他太多时间，大家晚安。