翻译：小粒子儿大天体
Should we try to achieve a perfect body? I would say yes, definitely yes, if you can't do it.
我们是否应该获得一副完美的躯体呢？我会说，是的，当然是的。如果你不能，那就去做。
Q: If you cannot do it?
问：如果你不能，还要去做？
Lester: Yes.
答：是的
Q: That's a contradiction!
问：那不矛盾嘛！
答：不矛盾。改变你的不能够，使之成为能够。如果你不能让你的身体变得完美，你就应该学着这么做。但是尽管我们应该能够让身体变得完美，一旦我们有能力做到，但还是让身体如是呈现更好，不论健康或生病，你都不受其影响。如果你有足够的智慧，不管你的身体怎么了，对你来说并没有什么不同。
我已经给了你们一个总体方向，现在来具体谈谈。如果我们想要一个完美的身体，但是我们却并没有一个完美身体，那意味着我们不相信我们能使身体变得完美，意味着在潜意识层面，我们抱持着不完美身体的信念。身体完全是头脑的复制，是我们意识的向外投射。我们必须改变潜意识的信念，直至潜意识相信我们的身体是完美的，那样我们的身体才会完美。
现在，拥有一副完美身体是否是必需的呢？不，不是的。但是，拥有完美的智慧是必需的。有了这份智慧，即使你无法拥有完美的身体，你也可以学习让你的身体完美。当你能够做到让你的身体完美时，你可以通过获得“我不是这具身体”以及“身体无法影响我”的智慧，来超越对完美身体的必需。这是更高的境界，实际也是最高境界的其中一个面向，即无论身体发生什么，你都能够安住于平静中。
身体不是无限的，而是极具限制性的载体，并且十分纤弱。把体温调高或调低12度，身体就会死去。放进一定剂量的化学品（毒药），它会死去。切断氧气供应，它也会死去。所以，身体真的是非常有限的载体。最好的做法就是不要成为这物理身体，转而成为你的所是，从对死亡的恐惧中解脱出来，因为死亡恐惧是其它一切恐惧的基础。
拥有不完美身体，并禁止它烦扰你，这是条高度灵性的纪律。许多完全开悟的大师就是很好的榜样，因为他们就是抱着一副病体过完一生的，身体就是限制的牢笼。不是我们在身体的里面，而是身体在我们的里面。我们最大的限制就是：“我是这具身体。”不仅身体是个限制，与其相关的还衍生出了数以百计的其它限制。所以，尽管一开始我在瞬间纠正了身体的不完美，现在我更倾向于不去纠正身体，而是让它不影响我，不管它出现何种状况。我从三四年前就开始这么做了。
我可以告诉你，当我不认同身体时会发生什么。有次我要把砍下来的树装到卡车上，其中有一棵怎么都动不了。我说我要把它装上去，于是就在用力推的时候，我的肩膀碰到了树干。那棵树终于动了，但是我的椎间盘却错位了。我之所以提及这件事是因为真的痛坏了，当时差点昏厥过去。我对自己说：“莱斯特，不要成为这具身体。”
如果我不是这具身体，身体就无法影响我。我当时觉知到身体有疼痛，但是好像离我很远也很微弱，所以无法干扰到我。我能够立刻把其它树装到车上去，好像什么事也没发生一样。
还有一次，我扭伤了脚踝，那里肿了起来，真的非常痛。但当我不认同这具身体时，我能够自由走动，好像脚根本就是完美的一样，即使脚踝已被扭伤。椎间盘移位那次，早上醒来时，我没有立即不去认同身体，于是疼痛非常剧烈。为了能够下床，我不得不用手和膝盖来作支撑。记得第一两天都是这么（爬）过来的。后来我摇摇头，说“这是什么嘛！”意识到这点时，我会说：“哦，我不是这具身体。”于是我站起来，好像身体完全正常一样，能够做任何事，做每一件事，之后的日子就是这么过来的，虽然我能感觉到遥远而轻微的疼痛，但是已经无法影响到我了。如果你也能做到，那么这是非常好的纪律。不要成为这具身体！
Q: Wouldn't it be so much simpler to simply say, "The body's perfect," and then have a perfect body? After all, you control your body,-why even have the pain or feel uncomfortable when you get out of bed?
问：听你这么说好像很简单，只是说“身体是完美的”，然后就能拥有完美的身体？既然你能控制你的身体，那为什么你下床时还会有疼痛或不舒服的感觉呢？
Lester: Well, when I got out of bed I was identifying with the body; that's why it pained so. But the moment I didn't, everything was all right. I'd stand up and the body would do anything. Now, this is a test of your spiritual knowingness. This is much higher. This is being not the body.
答：在我下床的那一刻，我认同了这具身体，所以会感到痛。但当我没有认同它时，一切都OK。我会站起来，身体也能做任何事。这也可以作为对你灵性成果的测试，这是更高的境界，也就是不再成为这具身体。
Q; How can the body be imperfect when you said before your body is a reflection of your mentality, and if you know hat there's only perfection, how can you have an imperfect body?
问：你之前说身体是心智的投射，那么身体怎么还会是不完美的呢？如果你知道只有完美存在，那怎么还会有不完美的身体？
Lester: At first I identified with the body and then, after minutes, I did not. You want me to come down a step? Or do you want me to stay where I am?
答：一开始我认同了这具身体，几分钟过后，我不再认同。你想让我往下走一个台阶，还是就待在这里？
Q: All right, go ahead and stay up where you are.
问：不用走，就待着吧。
Lester: A perfect body is not the highest state. A body is a limitation even when it's perfect. It's a perfect body. Its still a body, but perfect. A higher state is not being the body but being the All. Ah, you're shaking your head now. Have I answered it?
答：完美的身体不是最高境界。身体始终是个限制，哪怕它是完美的。最高境界是不再成为身体，而是成为整体。啊，你在摇头。我没有回答你的问题吗？
Q: I'm beginning to follow what you're getting at.
问：我在听你正在说的。
Lester: So again, it's a matter of level, but because we're now into a level that is high, I want to stay there. Be not the body! Be what you really are! Be infinite! Be the All! Perfection is not a perfect body. Perfection is absolute perfection. Although you have a tendency to bring it down into perfect things, perfection does not relate to things. No thing is perfect. Every thing is a thing of limitation, confined to form and space. So the top state, the absolute, is a state of no things. Its just beingness, or pure consciousness, pure awareness. That's not being a body, a thing. It's just being. So to sum it up, of course we should have perfect bodies! If we have bodies that pull on our attention all the time, its difficult to seek the Truth. So rid yourself of body demands. Make the body as perfect as you can; however, it is a higher state when the body does not affect us because of our not identifying with the body.
答：所以，这是个关乎水平的问题，但是因为我们正在进入高水平，想要待在那里，所以不要成为身体，而是成为你的本然！成为无限！成为整体！完美不是指完美的身体，完美就是绝对的完美。虽然你倾向于把它往下拽，拽到完美的物上去，但是完美跟物没有关系，没有什么物是完美的，所有的物都是有限的物，被形式和空间所局限。所以最高境界，亦是绝对境界，就是无物的境界，只是纯然的存在，纯然的意识，纯然的觉知。总而言之，我们是应该拥有完美的身体，但若身体一直占据我们的注意力，那就很难发现真相。我们要摆脱对身体的要求。尽可能地使身体完美，但是，更高的境界是不再受到身体影响，因为我们已不再认同它。
Is it clear now, these two different aspects of body? It's great to make a perfect body. It is far better to be not the body.
现在清楚了吗，有关身体的两个不同方面？让身体完美固然好，但更好是不再成为身体。
Q: You see, it's very difficult for me to be beingness or awareness without being something or aware of something. Lester: You and most of us. But the top state is just beingness, only beingness, or consciousness, only consciousness. It's consciousness conscious of all consciousness. It's beingness being all beingness. And consciousness and beingness mean the same thing at the top.
问：你知道，对我来说，作为存在或觉知而非成为什么或觉知什么，非常困难。但是最高境界就是纯然的存在或纯然的意识。意识所有意识的意识，作为所有存在的存在，并且意识和存在在最高境界是同一个东西。
Q: Well, can't we enjoy the limitation at the time?
问：那时，我们是否还能享受限制呢？
Lester: You can. You can if you choose, but that's not the ultimate joy. If you want more joy, don't enjoy the thing, -be joy! Happiness is our natural inherent state. We are the All.
答：当然能，如果你选择的话，但是那不是终极幸福。如果你想要更多的幸福，那就不要享受幸福，而是成为幸福本身！幸福是我们固有、天然的特性。我们就是一切万有。
We artificially create a lack and then a desire to relieve that lack, which, when that lack is undone, we feel better. It's like sticking a pin into you. It hurts and you take it out and say, "Gee that feels good." This is exactly what enjoying things and people is. We hurt ourselves by creating a lack and then remove the lack, the pain, and say, "Gee that feels good. That makes me happy."
我们人为地创造了匮乏，继而创造欲望来消除匮乏，当匮乏被解除时，我们感到片刻的愉悦。这就像拿针戳自己，你感到疼，把它拔出来，然后说：“哎呦，感觉不错。”对人和物的享受就是这么回事。我们创造匮乏来弄疼自己，然后消除匮乏也就是消除疼痛，并说道：“哎呦，感觉不错。那让我快乐。”
Every time you feel happiness, you feel only your real Self, more or less. The happier, the more you feel your real Self. And you wrongly attribute it to things and people outside of your self.
每次你感到幸福，都是或多或少地感觉到了你的真我。越幸福，就表明你越多地感受到了真我。但是你却错误地将其归结为你之外的人和物所带来的。
The mechanism of it is this: When you create the lack, you start up thoughts of I need this person, this thing, to make me happy. That causes a bit of pain, -a need, a lack-which when you are relieved of that thought of lack you return back to being your Self and this is what we call happiness. This is something very great to be achieved: to see that your happiness is inherent. That which you have been calling happiness is doing away with happiness and then restoring it and wrongly attributing it to external people and things.
这个机制是这样的：当你创造匮乏的那一刻，你开始了“我需要这个人、这个物来让我快乐”的念头。那导致了一些疼痛——需要，匮乏。当你消除匮乏的念头后，你回到了真我，也就是所谓的幸福。你需要看清幸福是你固有的，而不是去掉它又还原它，还错误地以为它是来自外在的人或物。
So, if you want to enjoy a body, that's your privilege. If you want more joy don't enjoy the body, just be joy, which you naturally are. That's the natural state. It's not necessary to need things. When you see that you are the All, there's nothing lacking. So, take your joy directly, be your Self. That's being infinite joy.
所以，如果你想要享受身体，那是你的特权。如果你想要更多的幸福，那就不要享受身体，而是成为幸福，也就是你的本然。当你了悟你就是一切万有，便不再匮乏，也就不再需要。所以，成为你的真我，也就成为了无限的幸福。
Q: Now step down and discuss your experiences of changing your body because really, many of us are in the area where we don't quite understand this. Or let's talk about myself, not "us."
问：说说你改变身体的那些经历，因为我们很多人真的不太懂。说说你自己，而不是我们。
Lester: O.K. What happened to me was that I saw that there's as much life in this body as there is in a piece of wood. It's composed of carbohydrates and minerals, the same chemicals as in a piece of wood; that the only life in this body is I. I put the life into the body. I saw that the body is my consciousness, and my consciousness puts the life into it. When you see that you make the body, then you can change it. You can mentally change it.
答：好的。当时我明白了这具身体里的生命不亚于一块木头里的生命。身体和木头一样，都是由碳水化合物以及各种矿物质构成，而身体里的生命就是“我”。我把生命注入这具身体。我看到身体就是我的意识，我的意识把生命注入身体。当你了知是你创造了生命，你便能在心智层面改变它。
Now, the body we have now is the accumulated education, body-wise, that we have gathered up to date. This is my concept of a body. That's your concept of your body. It's deeply subconscious right now. This is why it's difficult to change the body. To perfect it requires seemingly impossible letting go of all these past concepts of imperfection of body. This, however, is the negative way of doing it, that is, of eliminating the negative concepts of imperfection. It's a difficult way.
我们现在所拥有的身体是对它经年累月的教育成果。这是我对身体的概念，也是你对你身体的概念。这个概念如今已深植于潜意识中。这就是为什么改变身体如此之难的原因。让身体完美，需要释放过去累积的所有有关不完美身体的概念，而这看起来几乎不可能。但是，这只是个消极做法，也就是清除不完美的概念，这很难做到。
Then there is the better way, the positive way of putting in what should be there, a picture of a perfect body in your mind. Now, this picture of the perfect body must be put in with will power, more powerful than the sum total of all the pictures in the past of an imperfect body. You must image the picture of a perfect body with a thought that's stronger than all the past thoughts. Does that make sense? This is the mechanics of it.
还有一种更好的方式，积极的方式，那就是在我们的头脑中植入完美身体的画面。植入这个画面必须使用意志力，一个强有力的念头，其力量要大于过去所有有关不完美身体的念头的力量总和。我说的有道理吗？这就是那个机制。
All right, now what is a powerful thought? A powerful thought is a concentrated thought. The more concentrated, the more powerful the thought. A concentrated thought is a thought without other extraneous thoughts present at the time. The very best way to get a most powerful thought is to let go of your self, your little self; let go of your feeling that I have this and I have that. Then say. "Yes, there is only perfection, and that includes this body." Let go of the world; let go of your thinking as your mind is your biggest obstacle. Your mind is going all the time, whether you're aware of it or not. When you're not conscious of it, it's going on subconsciously. You've trained yourself to think, think, think. You've got the mind spinning with all these thoughts. You've given a lot of importance to this thinking. The importance of it is also subconscious, so it's not easy to let go of the importance of thinking. And this is an obstacle to your concentrating.
那么什么是强有力的念头呢？一个强有力的念头就是一个集中的念头。念头越集中，就越有力量。一个集中的念头必须同时摒弃了其它不相关念头。想要一个强有力的念头，最佳方式就是释放你的小我，释放“我有这个”、“我有那个”的感觉。然后说：“是的，只有一个完美，这个完美包括了这具身体。”释放这个世界，释放你的思考，把你的头脑看成是你最大的障碍。不管你是否意识到你的头脑，它都一直在转个不停。当你没有意识到它时，它是在潜意识层面运作。你把自己训练得总是思考不停，你的头脑一直在念头中打转。你给了思考太多重要性。思考的重要性也是无意识的，所以很难释放它。思考的重要性也是是你集中念头的障碍所在。
If you could let go of thinking, and in just one easy thought with no other thoughts around, think "I am perfect," you'd instantly have a perfect body. It'll take a continuous trying until you achieve it. An almost effortless thought is the way it is effected because your mind is quiet at the time. And you might not even be aware of it when it happens. You might become aware of it later on.
如果你能释放念头，只待在“我是完美的”这个念头中，你就能立即拥有完美的身体。你需要不断尝试，直到你能做到为止。不费力的念头才是有效的，因为那时你的头脑是安静的。当它发生时，你可能甚至还没觉察到它，但稍后你可能会觉察到。
I was just reminded of a case of a man who was in a wheel chair for many years, I believe ten. His house caught on fire and he packed two bags, ran out of the house and sat down on them. It was after he had sat down on the bags that he had realized what he had done. He had forgotten that he couldn't walk. See, when it does happen, you're accepting the positive so much that the negative is forgotten for the time being.
这让我想到一个案例，有个男人坐了十年的轮椅。有次他的房子着火了，他迅速打包了两袋东西，从房子里逃了出来。就在坐在行李上的时候，他突然意识到自己做了什么。他忘了自己是不能走路的。看到没？当它发生时，你太专注于正面的，从而暂时忘掉了负面的。
To sum it up, the thing that will affect a perfect body is a very strong conviction "My body is perfect." Saying it in another way, it is a concentrated thought, which is a thought undisturbed by other thoughts at the time. And the feeling is a feeling of let-go. You just let go and let the perfection be.
总之，造就完美身体的是一个强有力的信念，这个信念是：“我的身体是完美的。”这个信念也是一个集中的念头，集中到不被其它念头所干扰。你必须放手，让完美自行呈现。
Q: Well then, what you're really saying is that when you see all perfection, your thoughts are so based upon perfection your body automatically takes that perfection.
问：你是说当你明白一切皆完美时，你的念头如此根植于完美，以致于你的身体自动变得完美？
Lester: Yes, if you see the all-perfection, then everything is absolutely perfect, everything.
答：是的，如果你看到一切都是完美的，那么一切就都会绝对完美。
Q: Then you cannot have an imperfect body.
问：那么你就不可能拥有不完美的身体
Lester: Right.
答：对
Q: And this being very, very peaceful, - if you go into psychosomatic medicine, they claim that the body difficulties are caused by turmoil in the mind. And if these are quieted, then the body may be corrected without any thought about it.
问：并且也会变得极度宁静。心身医学有个说法，生理问题都是由头脑的混乱所导致。如果头脑能安静下来，身体就会自行纠正，而无需使用任何念头。
Lester: Yes, if you quiet the subconscious mind. You see, the body is working on an automatic pilot. Everything happening in the body, we are doing subconsciously, automatically. So, you have to straighten out the subconscious thinking.
答：是的，如果你能让潜意识安静下来。你知道，身体是自动运转的。身体里发生的一切，都是潜意识地，都是自动地。所以，你必须把潜意识里的念头给拉出来。
Q: When you were in New York and you accomplished much, did you do it systematically? Did you just see perfection so completely, or did you realize the power of your mind? Just exactly what method did you use?
问：当你在纽约，在灵性上有了一定成果时，你是否是有计划地达成？你是完全地看到完美，还是意识到头脑的力量？你用的到底是什么方法？
Lester: Well, when I did it, it was almost like a byproduct. I sat down with a determination to get the answers to "Who am I, -what am I? What is this world? What is my relationship to it?" In the process of which I saw the Perfection and that this universe, including this body, was a product of my consciousness, my thinking. I therefore imaged the body as perfect and instantly it was. Gone were the ulcers, the jaundice, the coronary trouble and other imperfections. It was very easy. It was like an almost effortless thought.
答：我当时并没想那么多，它就像个副产品。我只是坐在那儿，问自己：我是谁？我是什么？世界是什么？我跟世界什么关系？然后决心要获得这些问题的答案。其间，我明白了这个身体和这个宇宙都是完美的，明白了它们都只是意识和想法的产物，于是我想象身体是完美的，它就立刻变得完美。我的胃溃疡、黄疸病、冠状动脉疾病以及其它一些生理问题就都消失了。真的非常容易，就是一个几乎不费吹灰之力的念头。
There are different levels of healing the body. Spiritually, it's instantaneous. There's only perfection and that's all there is and it is instantaneous. Mentally, it is done from instantaneously to very fast, in days or in weeks, depending upon your mental concept of how fast you can do it.
疗愈身体有几个层次。一个是灵性上的，能够瞬间疗愈。只有完美存在，一切皆完美，那么疗愈就能在瞬间发生。还有心智上的，也非常快，几天到几周不等，有时也会是瞬间的，取决于你相信多久能疗愈。
Q: When you're using the word "body," it also would include all our environment, wouldn't it? There's really no difference between our body and our environment.
问：当你用“身体“这个词时，它也包括我们的环境，是吗？身体和环境之间真的没有什么差别。
Lester: That's true in the sense that it is all our consciousness, but Im speaking specifically of the body because we're talking on that. Actually, the whole material world and the body are very similar in creation. They are the physical out-projecting of our mind.
答：从“一切都是我们的意识”这个角度来讲，是的。但是我现在说的是这个身体，因为我们正在谈论这个主题。实际上，整个物质世界和身体在构造上是非常相似的。因为它们都是我们意识的向外投射。
我回答了你的问题吗？你知道，当我告诉你我怎么做时，对你不会有太大帮助。你必须按你自己的方式去做。就我所知，你的方式是消除过去所有有关身体的错误想法。这些想法是你过去生活的一个延续，非常的根深蒂固。如果你能让身体变得完美，很好。如果不能，那就与它和谐共处，而不是成为它。
身体再好又能怎样？它们迟早会腐烂。最好的身体也会在它腐烂时，发出恶臭。所以，从更高的角度来看待身体。
Q: As I understand it, if I have a sense of perfection, which would include my body, the body could not be imperfect.
问：就我所了解的，如果我有完美的感觉，包括身体的完美感，那么身体就不可能是不完美的。
答：是的，找到这种感觉！当你有这种感觉时，不仅仅是身体，其它一切都会变得完美，这可比只拥有完美的身体好多了。那时你的整个宇宙都是完美的，那是非常非常高的境界。当看到完美时，不完美便不复存在，这就是最高境界。