何以此时？Me Too 运动专题报道（下篇）

本文由微博用户@Maxiv想考MTI翻译自 NPR 播客 Hidden Brain: Why Now?

这一期Hidden Brain 是关于 Me Too 运动的专题报道，并从社会心理学角度进行分析。

原文和图片摘自 http://www.kenw.org/post/why-now 版权归 NPR 所有。

何以此时？Me Too 运动专题报道（上篇）
何以此时？Me Too 运动专题报道（中篇）

警告

本期节目含有性侵犯的描述，可能不适合部分听众收听。

Jana Mestecky

Jana Mestecky was an assistant and later stage manager for Israel Horovitz in the 1990s. Mestecky says during that time, Horovitz kissed and groped her against her will.

COURTESY OF JANA MESTECKY

20世纪90年代，Jana Mestecky 担任 Israel Horovitz 的助理和后期舞台经理。梅斯特基说，在那段时间里，Horovitz 违背她的意愿亲吻并触摸她。
照片由 JANA MESTECKY 提供

VEDANTAM: Another young woman said she met Israel Horovitz in 1994. Jana Mestecky was interning at a small theater in Paris where Israel was working. She says he tried to kiss her and once tried to pull her into his bedroom. When Jana discovered Bill Marx's stories, she received social proof about what would happen if she spoke out.

VEDANTAM：另一位年轻女士说她在1994年遇见了 Israel Horovitz。Jana Mestecky 在 Israel 工作的巴黎一家小剧院实习。她说他试图吻她，曾经试图将她拉进他的卧室。当 Jana 发现比尔马克思的故事时，她得到了社会证据，如果她说出来将会发生什么。

MESTECKY: I had case-based evidence from a '93 article that came out that nothing happened to Israel Horovitz or the company or the board or anybody else who was responsible for enabling and protecting that behavior. I knew that you put yourself out there, and there will be nothing done other than you lose your job, and you leave, and you're bullied out of it.

MESTECKY：我从一篇93年的文章得到了一个基于案例的事实—— Israel Horovitz 或者是公司或者是其他应该对包庇和保护这种行为的任何人，都毫发无损。我知道你把自己置身于那种境地，除了失去你的工作之外不会有任何结果。然后你离开了，你就是被欺负走了的那个。

VEDANTAM: Stay with us.

VEDANTAM：不要走开，马上回来。

VEDANTAM: The same year that Jana Mestecky decided to remain quiet, Maia Ermansons was born at St. Vincent's Hospital across the street from Israel Horovitz's brownstone in Greenwich Village. From an early age, she was drawn to the stage. She started out dancing. It was Maia's dance teacher who recommended her for a role in one of Israel Horovitz's plays. She was 11 years old. Everything about the theater and the playwright delighted her.

VEDANTAM：就在 Jana Mestecky 决定保持安静的同年，Maia Ermansons 出生在 Israel Horovitz 位于格林威治村的褐砂石街对面的圣文森特医院。从很小的时候起，她就被舞台所吸引。她开始跳舞了。Maia 的舞蹈老师推荐她参加 Israel Horovitz 的戏剧。她才11岁。有关剧院和剧作家的一切都让她兴奋。

ERMANSONS: Oh, I loved him. He was great. Yeah, I had so much fun with him. He was like a grandfather to me. There was a running thing going on during the production. If anyone cursed in front of me, they had to buy me a Toblerone bar, so I, you know, got lots of chocolate off of him. Yeah, it was great. He invited my family and I to a Boxing Day celebration after Christmas. Yeah, I felt very close to him.

艾尔曼森：哦，我爱他。他很棒。是的，我和他一起玩得很开心。他就像我的祖父。在制作过程中发生了一件事情。如果有人在我面前骂人了，他们就得给我买一个 Toblerone 巧克力棒，所以我，你知道，从他那里得到了很多巧克力。是的，太棒了。他邀请我和我的家人参加圣诞节后的节礼庆祝活动。我觉得他很亲近。

VEDANTAM: Maia stayed close with Israel after the production. He made her feel special.

VEDANTAM：Maia 在制作完成后与 Israel 保持密切联系。他让她感到自己很特别。

ERMANSONS: Well, he was just always really kind. He always responded to emails extremely quickly. Yeah, it was just this general sense of feeling that I wasn't just anybody else, that I was valued and respected. He wrote me recommendations for things. He would help me - he gave me monologues for auditions. He was great. He came to - at my request was the speaker at graduation for my middle school, PPAS, the Professional Performing Arts School.

埃尔曼森斯：嗯，他总是很善良。他总是非常迅速地回复电子邮件。是的，只是这种大体上的感觉，我和其他人不一样，我格外珍贵、备受尊重。他给我写了一些推荐信。他会照顾我——他给了我试镜的长篇独白。他很棒。应我的邀请，他来了我的中学 PPAS（专业表演艺术学校）做毕业的演讲。

VEDANTAM: Fast-forward a decade. In 2016, when Maia was 21, she was going through a rough time and feeling lost.

VEDANTAM：快进十年。在2016年，当 Maia 21岁时，她经历了一段艰难的时期，感到迷茫。

ERMANSONS: My cousin had died. My cat had died. I was going through relationship problems. Just, it was this swirl of things that were just getting very difficult to know how to deal with.

埃尔曼森斯：我的堂兄已经去世了。我的猫死了。我正在经历感情问题。只是，正是这种事情的风暴才变得让人很难知道如何处理。

VEDANTAM: One day, Maia ran into Israel at a reading of one of his plays. She told him what was going on in her life.

VEDANTAM：有一天，Maia 在读完他的一部戏剧时遇到了 Israel。她跟他讲述了生活中发生的事情。

ERMANSONS: And he said to me, don't worry. I'm going to give you as many of my short plays as you want, and you're going to produce them, and that's going to be your project. That's what's going to focus you. And it was really incredible. I thought that it was a beautiful offer, a very cool offer. I'd never produced anything before. He was willing to help me. So it was really meaningful.

艾尔曼森：他告诉我，别担心。我的短剧本你要多少就有多少，你将会参与制作它们，这将是你自己的项目。这会让你集中注意力。这真的太不可思议了。我认为这是一个很棒的机会，非常酷的机会。我以前从未制作过任何剧本。他愿意帮助我。这真的很有意义。

VEDANTAM: Maia consider it carefully. She had to conquer her own doubts about whether she was up to it - whether she could direct others, not just be directed. She decided she could.

VEDANTAM：Maia 仔细考虑。她不得不克服自己对自己是否达到这个目标的疑虑——她是否可以指导别人，而不仅仅是被指导。她觉得她可以。

ERMANSONS: So I emailed him and I said that it would be great. And within minutes, I got a response with attachments to a ton of his plays. And so I began sifting through them to see which ones I wanted to do.

艾尔曼森：所以我给他发了电子邮件，我说这可以的。几分钟之内，我得到了回应，附上了大量的戏剧。所以我开始筛选它们，看看我想做哪些。

VEDANTAM: Maia eventually chose five plays to work on. She recruited an actor who was also interested in producing, and they got to work. They changed language that felt dated. They started working on casting. Maia wanted to get as much done as possible so that when she met with Israel...

VEDANTAM：Maia 最终选择了五部戏剧。她招募了一位对制作感兴趣的演员，他们开始工作。他们改变了感觉过时的语言。他们开始致力于选配角色。Maia 希望尽可能多地完成工作，以便在她与 Israel 会面时......

ERMANSONS: I could show him that I was actually invested in this and that I was putting the time in and I wasn't just waiting for him to tell me what to do.

艾尔曼森：我可以告诉他我真的很投入这个，而且我正在花时间在上面而且我不只是在等他告诉我该怎么做。

VEDANTAM: Finally, Maia was ready. She wanted to talk production with Israel. At the time, he was overseeing rehearsals at a theater in downtown Manhattan.

VEDANTAM：最后，Maia 准备好了。她想和 Israel 谈演出。当时，他正在曼哈顿市中心一家剧院监督排练。

ERMANSONS: He lives just a few blocks away from that theater, and I live further uptown, so I was saying I could go downtown to meet him. It's not a problem. And he insisted on coming up to my house.

艾尔曼森：他住的地方距离那个剧院只有几个街区，而且我住在上城区更远的地方，所以我说我可以到市中心去见他。这不是一个问题。但是他坚持要到我家来。

VEDANTAM: He showed up a half hour earlier than they had arranged.

VEDANTAM：他比他们约定的时间提前了半个小时。

ERMANSONS: That threw me off a little bit.

艾尔曼森：那让我有点失望。

VEDANTAM: But when she met him in the lobby, everything seemed fine.

VEDANTAM：但是当她在大厅遇见他时，一切看起来都很好。

ERMANSONS: Very friendly. He was very nice.

埃尔曼森斯：非常友好。他非常好。

VEDANTAM: They went into her apartment.

VEDANTAM：他们进了她的公寓。

ERMANSONS: And then the second the door closed behind him, he just - it was like a switch had flipped. He came and tried to kiss me, and then he put his hands on my breasts, and he pulled me to the couch in the living room and had me sit on his lap. And then I got up, and then he pulled me down again back onto his lap. And he stuck his tongue in my mouth, and I jerked away. Then he did it again. He held my head in place, and then I tried to get up again, and it was just sort of going around in circles like that.

埃尔曼森：然后第二个门在他身后关闭，他就是——就像打开了一个开关。他过来试图吻我，然后他把手放在我的乳房上，他把我拉到起居室的沙发上让我坐在他的大腿上。然后我站起来，然后他再次把我拉回他的腿上。他把舌头伸进我的嘴里，然后我猛地走开了。然后他又这么做。他按住我的头，然后我试着再次站起来，来来回回几个回合。

VEDANTAM: Maia grew up in New York, and she thought of herself as tough. But in that moment, she didn't respond the way she would have expected.

VEDANTAM：Maia 在纽约长大，她认为自己很强硬。但在那一刻，她没有按照她预期的方式反应。

ERMANSONS: I felt very self-conscious and nervous of offending him, which is something - to this day, I can't believe that that's how I felt in the moment. But then he - I kept sort of trying to veer the conversation back to the plays, back to the work, back to the production. And he interrupted me, and he said, before we get started, I just have to say I've known you since you were so young, and your breasts have just become so big and beautiful. And it was so - it was just impossible to process what was happening - that he was talking to me that way. And it was very strange that he acknowledged in the moment how long he's known me. But you know, part of me was almost hoping - you know, he's approaching 80, he's senile, maybe he doesn't quite understand who I am. But in that sentence, in that line, that clearly wasn't the case.

艾尔曼森：我觉得自己很清醒，并且因为冒犯他而感到紧张，这是——直到今天，我无法相信这就是我当下的感受。我一直试图将谈话转回戏剧，回到工作，回到制作。他打断了我，他说，在我们开始之前，我要说我是看着你长大的，你的乳房变得如此丰满动人。那就像是——我根本不可能处理正在发生的事情——他还在以那种方式跟我说话。而且很奇怪的是，他在那一刻明知道已经认识我多久了。但是你知道，我的一部分几乎是希望——他已接近80岁，已经老了，也许他不太明白我是谁。但在当时的情境里，明显就不是那样的。

VEDANTAM: Maia tried again to explain her ideas for the plays.

VEDANTAM：Maia 再次尝试解释她对戏剧的看法。

ERMANSONS: He had no interest in what I had to say about them. He sort of had his game plan for how they should be done.

埃尔曼森：他对我所说的话毫无兴趣。他好像已经计划好了这一切该怎样进行。

VEDANTAM: And then, she says, he tried to kiss her again.

VEDANTAM：然后，她说，他试图再次吻她。

ERMANSONS: And I said, I have a boyfriend. And he said, so? I have a wife. And then he said, I'm doing this for you, Maia. You know, I'm doing this for you because I love you. I love you. Do you know how much I love you? Do you love me? And he needed to hear me say that I loved him back. And then he told me no great woman ever became great by being a good girl.

艾尔曼森：我说，我有一个男朋友。他说，所以呢？我有老婆。然后他说，我都是为了你啊，Maia。你知道，我做这一切因为我爱你。我爱你。你知道我有多爱你吗？你爱我吗？他需要听我说我爱他的回答。然后他告诉我，一直做一个好女孩，就没法成为一个成功的女人了。

VEDANTAM: Maia says she kept resisting. Eventually, Israel left.

VEDANTAM：Maia 说她一直在反抗。最终，Israel 离开了。

When the door closed behind him and he left, what was going through your head?

当他走后那扇门关上的时候，你心里想的是什么？

ERMANSONS: I punched the kitchen wall. And I sat down on the floor, and I was just shaking with rage - rage that wasn't there when he was in the apartment. It was all very - I almost felt like my 11-year-old self dealing with him when we were face to face. And the second I didn't see him anymore, the second I got him out of the apartment, I just couldn't believe I had just let him leave and hadn't hit him. It was a very, very strange, sad moment.

艾尔曼森：我在厨房墙上重重打了一拳。我坐在地板上，愤怒到浑身发抖，那种他在屋子里时候没有的愤怒。这一切都非常——当我们面对面时，我几乎觉得是我11岁的自我与他打交道。他消失在我视野的那一刻，我让他走出公寓的那一刻，我简直不敢相信我就让他这么离开了而没有打他。这是一个非常非常奇怪又悲伤的时刻。

VEDANTAM: For more than 25 years, Israel Horovitz was protected by silence. Women who tried to speak up were shut down. The whisper network had turned thready and faint. Maia did not know about the accusations in Israel's past. But after the incident, she called her friends. She told her mother, who quickly tracked down the articles from the Boston Phoenix.

VEDANTAM：25年来，Israel Horovitz 一直受到这种沉默的保护。试图说出来的女人都被打压了下去。耳语联系网已经变得微弱。Maia 不知道 Israel 过去的种种指责。但事件发生后，她打电话给她的朋友们。她告诉她的母亲，妈妈迅速找到了波士顿凤凰城的文章。

ERMANSONS: And reading those articles changed something in me. The description of what he did to them was exactly what he did to me.

艾尔曼森：读这些文章改变了我的想法。他对她们所犯下的罪行描述正是他对我所做的事情。

VEDANTAM: Maia wanted people to know what had happened. She called a prominent theater where Israel often worked. She says the director didn't call back.

VEDANTAM：Maia 希望人们知道发生了什么。她打电话给 Israel 经常工作的著名剧院。她说经理从没有回电话。

ERMANSONS: It was radio silence for three months. And then one day, I saw on Instagram, actually, a post of Israel in rehearsal, on stage for the play they were working on. And it was captioned the man at work, with a bunch of hashtags like genius, love the theater.

埃尔曼森：三个月毫无音信。然后有一天，我在 Instagram 上看到，是一个 Israel 在舞台上为他们正在制作的剧本排练的帖子。标题写着「工作中的人」，有一堆标签像「天才」，「喜欢戏剧」’。

VEDANTAM: Maia burned with a white-hot fury.

VEDANTAM：Maia 感觉狂热的愤怒在炙烤着她。

ERMANSONS: I got so livid. I couldn't believe it.

埃尔曼森斯：我气得不行。我简直不敢相信。

VEDANTAM: So she sat at her kitchen table and slammed out a post on Facebook. I asked her to read it for us.

VEDANTAM：所以她坐在她的厨房桌旁，愤怒地在 Facebook 上发了一个帖子。我请她为我们读一读。

ERMANSONS: In the beginning of June, I had a meeting with a playwright in my home. He is my senior by several decades. I've known him since I was 11. I regarded him as an honorary grandfather.

埃尔曼森：六月初，我和家里的剧作家见过面。几十年来，他是我尊重的长者。我从11岁起就认识他，把他当做是我的名誉祖父。

VEDANTAM: Maia described in detail what Israel had done to her, but did not mention his name. She finished up the post this way:

VEDANTAM：Maia 详细描述了 Israel 对她做了什么，但没有提到他的名字。她写完了就这么发了出去。

ERMANSONS: And it hurts me that even though some people do know what he's done, it doesn't seem to matter. And there will be more women. And some of them may be a lot tougher than me, but some of them will surely be a lot less tough. We've got to protect each other, especially when it would be so easy for a woman to feel this was her fault.

艾尔曼森：虽然有些人确实知道他做了什么，但这似乎并不重要，这简直太让我心痛了。而且会有更多的女性受害。其中一些可能比我强硬，但其中一些肯定会不那么强硬。我们必须相互保护，特别是当一个女人很容易觉得这是她的错的时候。

VEDANTAM: That might have been where the story ended. But then, news broke. A tape surfaced in which then presidential candidate, Donald Trump, bragged about assaulting women.

VEDANTAM：这本应该是故事结束的地方。但随后，有一条爆炸性新闻。在一条被曝光的录音带中，当时的总统候选人唐纳德特朗普吹嘘袭击女性。

（存档记录的SOUNDBITE）

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I've better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful - I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

总统唐纳德·特朗普：我最好使用一些 Tic Tacs 糖果，以防我开始亲吻她。你知道，我不自觉地就会被美丽所吸引，就开始亲吻她们了。美丽就像一块磁铁。亲就对了。我甚至都没等。当你成为明星时，他们也会让你这样做。你什么都可以做。

BILLY BUSH: Whatever you want.

BILLY BUSH：无论你想要什么。

TRUMP: Grab them by the pussy.

特朗普：抓住他们的阴部。

VEDANTAM: It was the infamous Access Hollywood tape.

VEDANTAM：这是臭名昭着的《走近好莱坞》磁带。

ERMANSONS: Just the casual nature of it is - like, how they - yeah. It's - he just, you know, he can grab women's bodies. Israel grabs my body. It wasn't mine. They didn't see - he didn't see it as mine. Trump doesn't see it as the woman's body. Like, it's theirs. They have some ownership over it. And that really, really upset me. It still upsets me.

艾尔曼森：就自然的好像是天性使然一样，他就会抓女人的身体。Israel 抓住了我的身体。不是我的身体，她们不把我的躯体视为是我的。特朗普并不认为这是女人的身体。就好像，这是他们的。他们拥有所有权。这真的令人不安。它仍然让我心烦意乱。

VEDANTAM: Maia watched in disbelief as Donald Trump was elected president.

VEDANTAM：当唐纳德特朗普当选总统时，Maia 难以置信地看着。

（存档记录的SOUNDBITE）

TRUMP: I just received a call from Secretary Clinton.

特朗普：刚刚接到克林顿国务卿的电话。

（掌声）

TRUMP: She congratulated us - it's about us - on our victory.

特朗普：她祝贺我们——这是关于我们——我们的胜利。

VEDANTAM: At that moment, something snapped. The day after Trump's election, Maia reopened her Facebook post.

VEDANTAM：那一刻，有些东西突然袭来。特朗普当选后的第二天，Maia 重新开启了她的 Facebook 帖子。

ERMANSONS: I reposted the original thing, the original bit, the piece that I wrote. And I just put something at the top saying that, in light of the election, I'm ready to say the name. It was the playwright Israel Horovitz.

艾尔曼森：我转发了原来的东西，原始的那些，我写的那篇。我在置顶中提到，因为选举的原因，我准备说出这个名字了——那就是剧作家 Israel Horovitz。

VEDANTAM: Maia also felt compelled to find other women who'd been through what she'd been through. She had powerful tools at her disposal - Facebook, Twitter, Google. It was a whisper network but on high octane. One of the first people she connected with was Jana Mestecky, who has stayed silent about what happened after she met Israel in Paris in 1994. When she heard Maia's story, Jana knew she had to speak up too.

VEDANTAM：Maia 也觉得有必要找到其他经历过她所经历过的女性。她拥有强大的工具——Facebook、Twitter、Google。这是一个耳语网络，只不过更加强大有力。她联系的第一批人之一是 Jana Mestecky，她在1994年在巴黎遇见 Israel 后发生的事情保持沉默。当她听到 Maia 的故事时，Jana 知道她也必须说出来。

MESTECKY: It made me mad that it was still happening and that maybe if I had said something, maybe it would make a difference. I don't know that it would have made a difference then, but I'm raising two girls. And, you know, I couldn't look at myself if I didn't.

MESTECKY：这些仍在发生，这让我异常气愤。可能也许如果我说了些什么，事情会有所不同。我也不知道会有怎样的变化，但我有两个女儿。而且，你知道，如果我不这样做，我就无法面对自己。

VEDANTAM: Maia also did something else. She contacted the New York Times. All over the country, powerful men were being toppled on charges of sexual harassment. In late November, 2017, the Times published an article detailing the stories of nine women who publicly accused Israel Horovitz of harassment and abuse. In that article, the playwright apologized, but said he had a different memory of some of these events. The reaction to this article was completely different than in 1993. The Gloucester Stage Company quickly severed ties with Israel. Other companies canceled productions of his plays. His own son, Adam Horovitz, said he believed the accusations. Not long ago, I was talking to my wife over dinner about this story. I was trying to understand, why now? Why are women being heard in a way they were not heard before? My wife, Ashwini Tambe, researches gender issues and recently wrote about this topic.

VEDANTAM：Maia 也做了别的事情。她联系了纽约时报。在全国各地，都有位高权重的男性因被指控性骚扰而被推翻。2017年11月下旬，《泰晤士报》发表了一篇文章，详细介绍了九名公开指控 Israel Horovitz 骚扰和虐待的女性的故事。在那篇文章中，剧作家道歉，但声称他对这些事件有不同的记忆。这篇文章获得的反应与1993年的完全不同。格洛斯特舞台公司迅速切断了与 Israel 的联系。其他公司取消了他的戏剧作品制作。他自己的儿子亚当霍罗维茨说，他相信这些指控。不久前，我正在和我的妻子在晚餐的时候谈论这个故事。我试图理解，为什么是现在呢？为什么前作未有地，女人们的声音可以在现在被大家听到呢？我的妻子 Ashwini Tambe 是研究性别问题，最近写了关于这个话题的文章。

ASHWINI TAMBE: I'm an associate professor of women's studies at the University of Maryland, College Park.

ASHWINI TAMBE：我是马里兰大学帕克分校女子研究的副教授。

VEDANTAM: What she told me about was the theory of horizontal violence.

VEDANTAM：她告诉我的是横向暴力理论。

TAMBE: Horizontal violence is when people turn on other people in their own lives when they are not able to actually effect change against more powerful targets.

TAMBE：横向暴力是指当人们无法真正实现对更强大目标的改变时，人们在自己的生活中转向其他人。

VEDANTAM: It's a term used by the 20th century psychiatrist and philosopher Frantz Fanon. He wrote about how people living under brutal colonial rule dealt with oppression.

VEDANTAM：这是20世纪精神病学家和哲学家 Frantz Fanon 使用的术语。他提到了关于生活在残酷的殖民统治下的人们如何处理压迫。

TAMBE: Because it's so difficult to attack or target colonial rulers, what Fanon found was that people were lashing out against people in their own lives.

TAMBE：因为攻击或瞄准殖民统治者是如此困难，Fanon 发现人们在自己的生活中抨击别人。

VEDANTAM: Think about pressure building up in a container. The energy needs a way to escape. If it can't blow the top off, it might explode sideways.

VEDANTAM：想想在容器中积聚的压力。能量需要一种逃避的方式。如果它不能掀起顶部，它可能会在旁侧爆炸。

TAMBE: I think that the election of Donald Trump has served as a trigger and it has provoked a great deal of fury and impatience because he represents, for many people, the ultimate unpunished predator.

TAMBE：我认为唐纳德特朗普的选举已成为触发因素，它引起了极大的愤怒和不耐烦，因为对于许多人来说，他代表了最终没有受到惩罚的掠夺者。

VEDANTAM: Fanon used the term horizontal violence to describe rage that was misdirected or misplaced. Ashwini says, horizontal action is a better term to describe how many women have channeled their rage over Trump's election to call out the men in their own lives who sexually harass them.

VEDANTAM：Fanon 使用横向暴力这个术语来描述误导或错位的愤怒。阿什维尼说，对于描述有多少女性在特朗普的选举中引发了他们的愤怒转换到揪出那些在性生活中骚扰他们的男人，横向暴力是一个更恰当的术语。

TAMBE: It feels very very important in this moment to topple those perpetrators who are within reach because, at this moment, Trump remains unreachable, even though Trump shapes the context in which enormous anger against misogyny and sexual harassment has risen.

TAMBE：在这个时刻推翻那些触手可及的肇事者是非常非常重要的，因为在这一刻，尽管特朗普助推了反对厌女症和性骚扰的愤怒愈演愈烈的背景的形成，他仍然是无法撼动的。

VEDANTAM: Maia has the same take as Ashwini.

VEDANTAM：Maia 和 Ashwini 一样。

ERMANSONS: I think it's Trump. I think that's what it is. Clearly there's been something building for a long time. But it's such a huge deal for your leader, the leader of the free world to not care about women. That is so unbelievable.

埃尔曼森：我认为这是特朗普。我认为就是这样的。显然，有些东西已经累积了很长时间了。但是对于领导来说是一件大事，自由世界的领导者不关心女人。真令人难以置信。

VEDANTAM: Laura Crook was one of the women who came forward to speak to the press in 1993. She did so again in 2017. She still lives in Gloucester and she's grateful that her allegations were taken seriously this time around. But when she thinks about what happened to Maia, she can't get over the terrible cost of the delay.

VEDANTAM：Laura Crook 是1993年出面向媒体发表演讲的女性之一。她在2017年再次这样做。她仍然住在格洛斯特，她很感激这次她的指控得到了认真对待。但当她想到 Maia 发生的事情时，她无法原谅这种拖延的可怕代价。

CROOK: Just I wish it - I wish it could've stopped at '93. It breaks my heart. It breaks my heart that so many women had to go through this when it was stoppable. Was absolutely stoppable.

CROOK：我希望它——我希望它能在1993停止。这让人伤透了心。我心碎的是，在明明可以停止的时候，还是有许多女性不得不经历这个问题。那明明就是可以遏制的啊！

VEDANTAM: Shortly before the fall of the Berlin Wall, experts on both sides of the Atlantic were certain that the Soviet Union would endure for many decades. Preference falsification blinded regimes to their citizen's growing dissatisfaction. The pressure reached a breaking point in 1989, it took authorities by surprise. As protests at the Berlin Wall gained momentum, the regime that once looked invincible suddenly looked fragile. Preference falsification now started to work in the other direction. Very quickly, defending the old regime became dangerous. In exactly the same way, many powerful men accused of sexual assault have found themselves without defenders even amongst their own families. The social proof has changed. In Israel's play, "The Widow's Blind Date," Margy goes back home 20 years after she was gang raped. She wants to confront her assailants to hear them say they did something wrong. 20 years after what she describes as the worst summer of her life, Jocelyn Meinhardt, the playwrighting fellow who worked on that play in 1989, made an appointment to meet with Israel.

VEDANTAM：在柏林墙倒塌前不久，大西洋两岸的专家都确信苏联将持续数十年。偏好伪造使政权蒙蔽了公民日益增长的不满情绪。压力在1989年达到了一个突破点，令当局出其不意。随着柏林墙的抗议活动方兴未艾，曾经看起来坚不可摧的政权突然变得如履薄冰。偏好伪造现在开始向另一个方向发展。很快，捍卫旧政权变得危险。以同样的方式，许多被指控性侵犯的有权势的人甚至在他们自己的家庭中也找不到辩护的人。社会证据已经改变。在Israel 的戏剧《寡妇相亲》中，Margy 在被轮奸之后20年回到家中。她想要与她的袭击者对峙，听他们说说他们做错了什么。1989年，在她描述为她生命中最糟糕的夏天的20年后，同样从事该剧的剧作家乔斯林·梅因哈特（Jocelyn Meinhardt）预约会见 Israel。

MEINHARDT: I just confronted him. I said, you know, we're here. He was just like, oh, it's so great to see you. We should have gotten together a lot, it's been too long. And then when we sat down for coffee, I just said, you know, the reason - I have a reason for seeing you and I just want to talk about what happened. And I didn't say rape, I think I - you know, I said - I talked about the trauma. I was like, that was deeply traumatic. It affected my whole life and it's affected my romantic relationships, my - you know, just everything. And he

MEINHARDT：我刚刚和他对质。我说，“你知道，就是这样。”他就像，“哦，见到你真是太好了。我们应该经常聚在一起，已经过了这么长的时间了啊。”然后，当我们坐下来喝咖啡时，我只是说，“你知道，我来见你是有原因的，我想谈谈发生的事情。而且我没有说强奸，我想——我知道，我说——我抬到了创伤。对我来说，这是一种深刻的创伤。它影响了我的一生，它影响了我的感情生活，我的一切，你懂得。”他……

MEINHARDT: was like, what? You know, just sort of taken aback.

MEINHARDT：是什么样的？你知道，只是有点吃惊。

VEDANTAM: Jocelyn says Israel apologized.

VEDANTAM：Jocelyn 说 Israel 道歉。

MEINHARDT: But in that nonapologetic way when, you know, it's not - it wasn't anything that landed and that he took - really took responsibility for it.

MEINHARDT：但是，是以一种没有丝毫歉意的样子，你知道，事实并非如此——这没有达成任何事情，他完全没想负责。

VEDANTAM: She says he suggested that what happened between them was not abusive.

VEDANTAM：她说他觉得他们之间发生的事情不是侵犯。

MEINHARDT: At one point, he was just like, do you remember us? Like as if it was a romantic thing that I was just remembering wrong, which was enraging. And the thing that really, really sticks with me and really also is angering was just that, you know, you weren't underage. Like because it wasn't - because I was 19, that made it OK.

MEINHARDT：有一次，他就像是，你还记得我们当时吗？就好像这是一件浪漫的事情，只是我记错了，这也太让人抓狂了吧。真的，这件事一直跟随着我如影随形，你知道，你又不是未成年人。就好像因为我已经19岁了这一切就可以了一样。

VEDANTAM: Not long after Maia named Israel in her Facebook post, she received a voicemail.

VEDANTAM：Maia 在她的 Facebook 帖子中揭露 Israel 后不久，她收到了一个语音邮件。

（存档记录的SOUNDBITE）

ISRAEL HOROVITZ: Maia, this is Israel calling. I'm so upset. I don't know what to say. I had no idea. It's a terrible, terrible misunderstanding. It was a terrible mixed signal. And I didn't know you are upset and I love you, Maia, and I never, never would hurt that way. Never, never, never. Please, you've got to believe me. Oh, my God, I'm just shaking. Somebody just wrote to me and told me about it. I don't know what to say. I'm so sorry, and I love you. And I would never, never, never hurt you that way. That was such a missed signal and such a - oh, my God.

Israel Horovitz："Maia，我是 Israel。我很难过。我不知道该说些什么。我不知道。这是一个可怕的，可怕的误解。这是一个可怕的混淆试听的信息。我不知道你这么难过，我是爱你的啊，Maia，我从来没有，也不会那样受伤你。永远，永远，永远。拜托，你必须相信我。哦，天啊，我抖个不停。有人刚写信跟我讲了这件事。我不知道该说些什么。我很抱歉，我爱你。而且我永远不会，永远不会那样伤害你。这一切都搞错了——哦，我的上帝。“

VEDANTAM: It is known to us Israel said "The Widow's Blind Date," quote, "states clearly my feeling about sexual violence against women, which I find to be abhorrent and intolerable." We asked actors to read some lines from the end of Israel's play. In the scene, one of the men who raped Margy tries to explain why he did it.

VEDANTAM：据我们所知，Israel 说“《寡妇相亲》，我明确表达了我对女性性暴力的感受，我觉得这种暴力是令人憎恶和无法容忍的。” 我们让一些演员们阅读 Israel 戏剧结尾的一些内容。在这个场景中，强奸 Margy 的一名男子试图解释他为什么这样做。

（来自档案记录的SOUNBITE）

ERIC MESSNER: (As Archie) Nobody planned it, Margy. It just happened, honest to God. I mean, well, boys were always talking about wanting to do it with this one or that one. And everybody was always saying they'd love to do it with you because you were, well, beautiful. But nobody really meant it, jumping you. It's just when George here, well, started everybody wanted to - and everybody liked you.

ERIC MESSNER :（作为 Archie）没有人想过会这样，Margy。它就是真实地发生了，对上天发誓。我的意思是，男孩们总是说着想做这个想做那个的。而且每个人都总是说他们喜欢和你一起做爱，因为你很漂亮。但没有人是来真的，跳到你身上。就在乔治到了这一步了，那，每个人都想做了——每个人都喜欢你。

HARRIS: (As Margy) You liked me, Arch?

哈里斯：（饰演玛吉）你喜欢我，Arch？

MESSNER: (As Archie) I did, a lot.

MESSNER：（饰演 Archie）我喜欢，非常喜欢。

HARRIS: (As Margy) And that's how you showed me you liked me?

哈里斯：（饰演玛吉）你就是这么向我展示你喜欢我的？

MESSNER: (As Archie) I was tricked out at first I was. Otherwise, Margy, the first word you heard whispered in your ear would have been, I love you. Because I did. And I do. I do still, Marg, something wicked.

MESSNER：（饰演 Archie）我一开始中邪了。否则，Margy，你听到我在你耳边低语的第一句，一定是我爱你。因为我确实爱你。我爱你。我现在依然爱你，Margy，只是有些邪门的东西作祟。

HARRIS: (As Margy) I love you would not have helped.

哈里斯：（饰演玛吉）一句我爱你什么用的没有。

VEDANTAM: Since this episode first aired, several more women have publicly come forward to accuse Israel Horovotiz of sexual misconduct. We reached out to him, but he declined to speak with us.

VEDANTAM：自从这一集首次播出以来，已有几位女性公开出面指责 Israel Horovotiz 的性行为不端。我们联系了他，但他拒绝与我们交谈。

VEDANTAM: This week's show was produced by Jenny Schmidt, Maggie Penman and Parth Shah and edited by Tara Boyle and Rhaina Cohen. Renee Klahr does our social media. We had original music today from Ramtin Arablouei. Laura C. Harris and Eric Messner performed the scenes from "The Widow's Blind Date." Special thanks to Patrice Howard, Ashley Messenger, Greg Lewis, Chris Turpin, Neal Carruth, Mark Memmott and Anya Grundmann.

VEDANTAM：本周的节目由 Jenny Schmidt，Maggie Penman 和 Parth Shah 制作，由 Tara Boyle 和 Rhaina Cohen 编辑。Renee Klahr 编辑我们的社交媒体。我们今天播放来自 Ramtin Arablouei 的原创音乐。Laura C. Harris 和 Eric Messner 演绎了《寡妇相亲》中的场景。特别感谢 Patrice Howard，Ashley Messenger，Greg Lewis，Chris Turpin，Neal Carruth，Mark Memmott 和 Anya Grundmann。

VEDANTAM: I'm Shankar Vedantam. See you next week. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.

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