Preface
On Dec 18, 2017, Christine Liu, Founder of sHero China, and I had a long talk on Women and Diversity. The highlights of the talk are condensed in a 5-minute video, which is posted online. Upon requests of many, I decided to publish the full transcript of the talk in 4-5 articles here.
前言
2017年12月18日，sHero 中国的创始人刘慧和我有过一次长达一个半小时的访谈。刘慧把这次访谈浓缩成了一个六分钟的短视频可以在线观看。很多朋友看过后希望能看到采访的全稿。因平日工作繁忙，此事拖了大半年，现在趁我休假把这个采访的全文分几次在这里发表出来。
When the talk was held, I was President of DSM Hydrocolloids Business Unit. On August 31, I left DSM to pursue another career opportunity. As of October 15, I will become President Asia of AptarGroup and a member of its Executive Committee. I must emphasize that all views expressed in the dialogue are my own and my own only. Even if the talk was held on DSM China campus in Shanghai and I was asked a few questions about DSM, still, my responses only represent my own understanding and my own interpretation of the issues discussed.
在此声明，在接受访谈时，我是荷兰皇家帝斯曼公司亲水胶体事业部总裁，所用的场景也是帝斯曼在上海张江的办公园区。我已经于8月31日离开帝斯曼公司，并将于10月15日入职美国Aptar集团执行委员会，担任亚洲区总裁。我在访谈中所有的陈述都只是我个人的观点，并不代表帝斯曼公司或Aptar公司。
I am grateful for Christine’s time and passion for empowering women shown throughout the preparations, before, during and after our dialogue.
I am grateful for Cecilia Zhang, my then assistant at DSM, and her alumni friends from Academy for Future of Women, who have spent many hours of personal time to transcribe the voice recording to the word document and provide initial translation. I only made small edits to fully reflect what was originally expressed during the talk.
感谢刘慧节目制作前后和过程中投入的时间，她对女性领导力发展的激情和给我的各种启发。
感谢当时我在帝斯曼公司的助理张龄曦以及她在世界女性未来发展学院的学弟学妹们。他们花了很多周末和夜晚时间从大量的现场英文录音中整理出来英文原版并提供翻译。我只是在他们整理的原稿基础上按照访谈时的原意对英文和翻译稍微做了修改。
Even if some sentences in this document are repetitive, incomplete, grammatically incorrect, or unclear, I try as much as possible to stick to the original content.
Lastly, Christine and I conducted the talk in English instead of our native tongue Chinese, not because we feel more comfortable in English, but because we genuinely wish that our dialogue can trigger similar discussions in the global community.
尽管在访谈中我们使用的句子有时过于重复、过于简略、也有语法错误，有时表达不清，但是，我这里的文本还是尽量遵循当时现场访谈的原话和原意。
最后，刘慧和我当时做访谈时用的是英文而不是我们的母语中文，并不是因为我们都更擅长讲英文，而是我们真诚地希望我们的对话能在全球社区引发更多类似的讨论。
Below is the full transcript of our talk
Part 1
以下是我们的对话记录
第一部分
China Women & Diversity Talk
中国女性与多元话高端访谈
A dialogue between Christine Liu, Founder of sHero, and Xiangwei Gong, President, DSM Hydrocolloids
女性领导力组织sHero创始人刘慧和帝斯曼亲水胶体总裁龚湘伟的一场对话
C: Good morning Xiangwei. Welcome to China Women and Diversity Talk. It is so great to have you here for the first time.
C: 早上好湘伟，欢迎你来到中国女性多元化访谈。非常高兴可以你第一次来到这里（做访谈）。
XW: Good morning Christine. Thanks for having me. I look forward to it.
XW: 早上好Christine，谢谢你的邀请。我很期待此次采访。
C: We are here talking about today…The first question that I have is about diversity in the work places. When we talk about diversity in the work places, we are actually talking about attracting and nurturing the best talent. How DSM approaches diversity in different ways?
C: 我们今天要谈论的话题，第一个问的是有关工作场合中的多样性的问题。我们说工作场合中的多样性，我们其实是在讨论吸引并培养最好的人才。那帝斯曼是如何通过不同的方式来实现多样性的？
XW: Well, DSM is a 115-year-old Dutch company. It has gone through major transformation. Today DSM prides itself in one DSM culture in which diversity and inclusion is a very important element.
XW: 帝斯曼是一个有着115年历史的荷兰公司。这家公司经历过重大的转变。如今，帝斯曼有它引以为豪的独特的文化——“一个帝斯曼”文化，多样性和包容是其中很重要的元素。
C: As we understand if any organization today wants to succeed in the very competitive market, we have to fundamentally change the way we look at the work force, and on the other hand, changes are happening rapidly in so many areas. It doesn’t matter where you are, your geographic regions or organizations. So how inclusion is embedded into your culture at DSM?
C：如我们所了解的，任何一个组织想要在今天这个充满竞争的市场中获得成功，我们都要在根本改变我们看到员工看法。从另一个方面讲，无论你在哪里-身在何方或者属于哪个公司，现在许多领域目前正在迅速地发生变化。那么，帝斯曼是如何将包容性植入你们的文化的？
XW: This is actually a very very good point, a very strong statement. Diversity doesn’t matter if there is no inclusion. As we know, it is very easy to hire a bunch of different people, men and women, from different ethnicity, but what really matters is how we can include them all and make them really contribute. And in that regard, I think DSM is making a lot of efforts and progress. We are not there yet, but we keep trying and making progress.
XW：这是非常非常好的一点，也是一个强有力的陈述。如果没有包容性，多样性就失去了意义。众所周知，雇佣一群各有不同的人，比如男性、女性、不同民族，都轻而易举，但是真正重要的是我们如何融入他们所有人，并让他们每个人都做出贡献。在这一点上，帝斯曼付出了很多努力也取得了一定的进步。我们还没有完全达到那个境界，但是我们一直在努力，不断取得进步。
C: And when ... when we talk about diversity, we always think about women. And gender equality has a lot of attention these days and with so many good reasons. So how does DSM do for offering women opportunities?
C: 当我们讲多样性的时候，我们经常会想到女性。因为许多原因，两性平等这个话题在近一段时间得到了很大的关注。那么帝斯曼是怎样为女性提供机会的？
XW: Through different ways, mentoring and talent pipeline. Also we have Women Inspired Networks, all over the world, actually you know, in all regions. But I think…I don’t think this is really the key. I think the key is really what must be ingrained in our culture in business practice, and it is to make our diverse work force count.
XW: 通过许多不同的方式，其中包括指导和人才储备。我们也有在全球或者各地区都有WIN这个女性激励组织，但是我认为…...我不认为这是真正的重点。我觉得真正的重点是让我们多样化的人群在业务实践中发挥作用，并使其根植在我们的文化里。
C: When we talk about equity for women, it is not just only about the fairness issue. It is also about, you know, attracting the best talent in the company. So in that regard, you know you have been with the same company for so many years, and you are in charge of a global business unit for DSM, so can you tell us more about what has made you to the top as a women leader?
C: 我们所说的女性的平等，不仅仅是公平的问题，也是为公司吸引更优秀的人才。从这一点，你已经在这个公司很多年了，也负责管理帝斯曼一个业务单元的。你是否可以和我们分享一下，作为一个女性领导者，是什么让你走到现在的巅峰？
XW: Well, first of all, I am NOT on the top. It is all relative. In terms of where my mind is, my condition, I think I am on top. And secondly, actually, my team and I, we established this business unit. It is the first global business unit based in China. And right now I am in charge of that as well. So what made me on top and made this far? I think it’s really…I would have to trace back to my roots. Because I just don’t give up. I want to do great things.
XW: 首先，（作为女性领导者）我不是在巅峰。这都是相比较而言的。从我的思维所在这一角度，从我现在的状态来看，我是处在巅峰状态。其次，实际上，我的团队和我一起，我们一起创建了这个业务单元，这也是第一个总部位于中国的业务单元，我目前负责管理这个业务单元。那么，是什么让我走到了巅峰，走了这么远的历程？我觉得，真的，我要从我的根说起。因为我从不放弃，我希望成就一番大事业。
C: Yes, that is good. And we can talk in the later time more about your roots. In terms of working, you know， in the very, you know, competitive market and environment, as a woman leader, you are also a mother of two children. So you also said you children, you know, are the anchor of your life. You know, can you share more about that?
C: 是的，这样很好。那过一会我们会更多的讨论到你的根。关于职业，你肯定深有体会，在这个充满竞争的市场和环境中，作为一个女性领导者的同时，你也是两个孩子的母亲。你曾讲过，你的孩子是你生活中的“锚”，你心所依。就这一点，你可以分享一下吗？
XW: Yes. I have two children. Wonderful. My daughter is 20 and my son is 14. They are my source of inspiration. When my daughter was 10 years old, I asked her to have a role model. Because I grew up always with a role model. I only realize this of course later. But when she was 10, I asked her to have a role model. She has a lot of interests. I wanted her to become a pianist, to be successful in life, all kinds of things. And then she said, oh, I think you are cool. I just want to be like you. So I realize, wow, that really matters more than anything…anything I have heard. More than anything that I have heard. So it inspires me all the time. My son also gives me all kinds of encouragement and compliment. So I realize the impact that I have on them as well. Not just the responsibility to raise them, but also the impact that I have on them. So they look up to me, and I look up to them.
XW: 对。我有两个孩子，非常棒。我女儿20岁，儿子14岁。他们是激励我前进的源泉。当我女儿10岁的时候，我让她找一个榜样，因为我成长的过程中一直有一个榜样，我当然是过了很久之后才认识到这一点。她当时有很多兴趣爱好，我希望她成为一个钢琴家，希望她变得成功，诸如此类。然后她说，哦，我觉得你很酷，我就想像你一样。我意识到，哇，这真的比任何…任何我听过的话都要重要，比任何我听过的话都重要。她的话一直鼓舞着我。我儿子也经常给我各种鼓励和赞美。于是我也意识到我对他们（成长）的影响。这不仅仅是抚养他们长大的责任，而更是我对他们产生的影响力。所以我仰望着他们，他们也仰望着我。
C: Wow, that’s amazing. So was there a moment you know when you manage two jobs, one is at work and one is at home. You really really think about the struggle and also you really want to quit. Because you spent maybe too much time on the work, or you don’t have the balance ...and for your life?
C: 哇，那实在太棒了！你同时做着两份工作，一份在职场，一份在家庭，那么有没有一个时刻，你真的很挣扎，并且想要放弃，或者说在生活中失去了平衡呢？
XW: I definitely spend more time on work than on my children, on myself. But work is part of my life. So I have no regrets. So no complaints. I am very happy. That’s number one. Number two, have I thought about quitting? Yes. From time to time.
XW: 相比于花时间在孩子和在我自己身上，我肯定花了更多的时间在工作中。但是，工作是我生活中的一部分，所以我没有埋怨。我很幸福。这是第一。第二个问题，我有没有想过不干了？当然时不时的会想。
Click here to enter Part 2.
点击这里进入第二部。
点击以下文章可以知道我在二十五年前如何走入罗氏公司：
《二十五年前的一张旧报纸》