安德斯・海尔斯伯格（Anders Hejlsberg）非正式访谈录

今天终于见到了仰慕已久的大牛——安德斯·海尔斯伯格，微软总部之旅，算是没有白来。安德斯是世界级的编译器技术领导者，他最早为Algol-60语言撰写编译器，然后将自己撰写的Pascal语言编译器授权给了Borland公司，这就是举世闻名的Turbo Pascal，也是后来演化成为作为Delphi集成开发环境的基础语言的Object Pascal的核心。后来，在两大编译器和开发工具厂商的技术和产品之争白热化之际，比尔·盖茨亲自出面挖角，安德斯来到了微软，并在当年就形成了一套极有竞争力的架构——这就是.NET架构，而这个架构使用的工具语言也是他一手设计出来的——这就是C#语言。值得注意的是，自从安德斯来到微软以后，Borland的表现简直可以用一蹶不振来形容，Delphi也再也拿不出新东西来了，最后只能连同产品线CodeGear一起卖给名不见经传的Embarcadero公司，并最终于2009年被同样名不见经传的Micro Focus公司以7500万美元的可笑价格整体收购（CodeGear还卖了2300万美元，但原先Borland如日中天的时候，1亿美元可能都不到其一个月的营收）；并且，Java框架也受到沉重打击，当初安德斯出手做出来Visual J++以后，升阳公司感觉到巨大的威胁，于是采用流氓手段起诉，以为这样可以苟延残喘——结果像Java这种没前途的框架不攻自破，连升阳公司自己也只能卖给甲骨文了事。由此可见，以安德斯一人之力，在三大世界级软件开发工具企业之间“走一走”，结果真的是它们都要“抖三抖”，并且有两家就这么抖没了。而在全世界的软件开发人员的社区中，安德斯的名字当然是如雷贯耳。而就在今天，我有幸走进了安德斯的办公室，和他进行了一番面对面的交流。

以下的谈话记录整理凭记忆给出，尽可能地保持了原貌。

我：	Very glad to meet you, Anders.
安：	Nice to meet you, too.
我：	I notice that you are reading the book The Design of Design by Frederick Brooks. I happen to be one of the translators for that.
安：	Really? To Simplified Chinese? Good to know that. I haven’t get enough time to finish it yet. How do you like the book?
我：	It’s a nice book overall. The Mythical Man-Month opens my mind to recognize the engineering things in software after all, and it comes from the same author.
安：	That’s very true. I am having a good expectation on this book, too.
我：	Maybe I can give you a copy of the translated version in September.
安：	Cool. Why not. Well we just shipped Dev10 which kept me busy for a while.
我：	Yes. I heard that Visual Studio 2010 and Silverlight have just been released to the manufacturer. I am still getting used to it. Since you are the designer of Pascal compiler Delphi RAD tool, and also C# programming language. What made you change your mind of moving from Pascal to C-family programming language?
安：	Well it’s just a business decision and I have little choice about it. (笑) It’s majorly because that we need a language providing enough strength and less study time on it. That makes us think that we shall build our new programming language upon the C-family languages.
我：	Personally I like Pascal. It provides a couple of features which C does not support, such as nested functions and procedures.
安：	Yes. Pascal is good in some aspects. But in C# you can also use other powerful facilities like lambda expression.
我：	Such as is in F#?
安：	No, I mean lambda expressions in C#. Which you can model functions without so strongly typed out from it.
我：	That’s true. I like the features which I can use to model function at runtime, as is in Javascript.
安：	Yes. C# is also heavily used in web development. Also I think Silverlight will last for long, so is Flash. Although nowadays some argue that HTML will beat both Flash and Silverlight. And I agree that Silverlight will die at last. But it will take much longer than people think. And when that time comes, Silverlight and so will already go to a further step and the situation will become different.
我：	Well, I think the biggest problem of Flash as well as Silverlight is that they are not search engine-friendly. People can create interactive content by using them but it’s hard for the search engines to discover them.
安：	That’s very correct. But before HTML itself becomes mature we can only live with them.
我：	Personally, which is the most important feature you think it is with C# 4.0?
安：	I would say it is dynamic programming, which ease the programming process and makes C# a dynamic language. However, in those really big and sophisticated projects, it is no good using dynamic programming.
我：	Aren’t the biggest software projects still using C or those strongly typed languages?
安：	(Think for a while) Yes, those biggest projects are still composed in C-like languages without dynamic programming feature. The dynamic programming is good for composing small- and mid-sized project but for large projects it is not.
我：	Anders, you are from Denmark?
安：	Yes, I am.
我：	It’s so happened that I first knew my girlfriend when she was in Århus University and Bjarne Stroustrup, the inventor of C++ also studied there. Is Århus your hometown?
安：	No I came from København. But my father is from Århus, and I still have my family there. For some reasons, Danish creates many different programming languages.
我：	I am glad to know that. Anders, will more languages be introduced into .NET framework, such as Python, Ruby and so on?
安：	There is already .NET version of Python, which is IronPython.
我：	But is it developed by Microsoft? As far as I remember it is developed by 3rd party?
安：	Well, it is not included in Dev10, but it’s majorly sponsored by Microsoft employees.
我：	I see. Thanks for your information.
安：	And I don’t think there will be many languages added into the .NET framework language family. Instead, we make steps in the existing languages.
我：	So there will be C# 5, 6 and more?
安：	Definitely. Matt Warren and I are working on the architect of the C# programming language.
我：	I am looking forward to them. And, Anders, thanks for your time and I hope to see you with my new book.
安：	You’re welcome and you may drop me messages to see whether I am around.

安德斯身材魁梧，声音宏亮，非常热情，极有大师风范。他在说话的时候，喜欢先仰头思考几秒钟。十五分钟的访谈结束以后，我向安德斯赠送了我自己的译作：《C++：99个常见编程错误》和《微软的软件测试之道》，安德斯饶有兴趣地翻看了一下，说：“Sorry I don’t understand Chinese but I am thinking of learning it.”并把它们放到了自己的书架上，看到自己写的书能放在偶像的书架上，心里就多提多高兴了。然后，我和安德斯合影留念。希望能够在The Design of Design的中文版译完以后（这里提前广告一下，本书将于2010年9月由机械工业出版社华章图书公司出版），能再来和安德斯会面，并进行更深入的交流！